Side Tracks/Spurs

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I have a ROW/MOW question.

There exists a lumber industry near me that used to get 2x/3x per week service (depending on business) consisting of 2 loaded centerbeam cars in and two empties out. For a while they dropped to 2x weekly service of 1 load in/1 empty out. Lately (at least 6-8 months IIRC) they have only gotten 1 car spotted and it was pulled the next day. I’d hazard a guess that the track hasn’t seen use since last summer…around June. I include this information to help give an idea of what the use was.

From what I can tell (various trips to said lumberyard and observations through the fence) the track is about 2.5’ to 3’ lower than the main once you get to where cars were spotted and I can’t see any ballast or ties. The track looks mostly buried in pea gravel or sand but you can still see the top 3" of the railhead. I know the switch is still installed and a “reliable source” told me it hasn’t been embargoed.

My questions:

  1. Would this be called a siding, a spur or something else?

  2. How long can track like this sit w/o rail use and still be “ok” to use, should the customer decides he/she needs rail service again?

  3. Is there a benchmark “time of last use” beyond which the track has to be inspected?

  4. Who pays for such an inspection, should it be necessary?

  5. Should the inspection find fault with the track…I’d imagine the customer would need to pay to get it servicable. Does the customer’s responsibility stop at the property line? What if the switch has an issue?

  6. Would the RR be wise to periodically call the customer and remind them that they’re there should the need anything shipped? Especially if #2 is true…would this save inspection c

2

Routinely, the customer owns the track beyond the clearance point of the switch that connects to the railroads track. As such anything that occurs on the customer owned track is their responsibility. In the event a car is derailed serving the customer, the carrier will bill the customer for the re-railing costs and car repair costs. It is then the customers responsibility to get the track repaired for future service, after the repairs the carrier will inspect the work to make sure it is up to the carriers standards.

Spur tracks can lay fallow for a number of years without maintenance.

3

Dan, a siding has switches at both ends; a spur only has one switch.

Yes, there really are ties under there!

4

Ha! A question I’m qualified to answer. Lumber guy here- Don’t worry, they know the railroad is there, ready to ship in a car whenever they want to order one. The yard is keenly aware of what having a rail spur can do for them. But, the lower freight cost they can get by shipping in a railcar has to be weighed against some other factors, like inventory turns and tying up capital.

Side note: My employer built a brand new lumberyard last year. It’s outside town, so we could be on the BNSF line and ship in railcars. The cost figure I’ve heard tossed around for contructing the spur was in the million dollar range.

5

Why a million for a spur? I’ve heard a million for a mile of track…but for a spur…wow.

6

How long is that spur? Other than the switch, is there anything more than a couple of rails and the railbed?

7

Keep in mind, that numbers that are tossed around could be way off the mark. The spur is at least a half mile long. Because of the layout, the spur veers off about 100 yards upstream(?) of a rural, crossing. It looks like the entire crossing, and part of the road and approach to the now double track crossing had to be rebuilt. The spur ends at a pretty fair sized unloading ramp, and required some fill.

8

Without knowing the specific siding/spur or the line it runs off, this is conjecture, but one does need to consider the cost of cutting the switch into the main. The physical part wouldn’t be too bad, labor-wise (but still not cheap), but the cost of bringing the switch into the signal system (if such was necessary or even done) could be pretty high.

9

(Wor

10

Partial quote from Mudchicken’s post;"

“…(4) Unless the track is very old with a matching ancient contract, the industry pays for its inspection and maintenance on its side of the division of ownership, the railroad is responsible for the rest. (Amazing how many industry’s, building owners, operating officials and trainmen don’t know that!Dunce)…The Maintenance & Operation agreement (contract/ license agreement) should spell that out. The division of ownership may be the clearance point, a property or R/W line or any of a host of locations. Any railroad serving an industry without a contract is whistling in the dark about to step off a cliff…”

Some years back I worked at an industry near Arlington, Tn. It was served by a stub-siding off the CSX main line (nee L&N) between Memphis and Brownsville,Tn. When the industry track was rehabilitated it was done to accept more hopper cars of plastic pellets. The company paid for the materials ( rock ballast) and railroad crews did the work. There was a drain replacement under the mainline at a road crossing done at the same time; for two weeks there was, it seemed’ to be a different machine, and crew at work. A foreman said at one point they really ejoyed the job because no portapotty was needed, and they had a nice air conditioned place to eat in and take a break.[:D]

It was interesting to watch the line being jacked out of the mud, and new rock spread. This whole track was about 600 yards long, and the local crew used it several times a week as a siding to have traffic pass them on the mainline… The conductor had told us it was the only place where they could ‘go in the hole’ in the area, and it was a good place to park while eating in the company lunchroom or waiting for another train to go by. When cleared they wo

11

As Carl said, there are still ties under the pea gravel. I think they do that because trucks/forklifts can go right up to the car.

In some cases, there are earthen embankments that have been built up to car height on both sides of the car, and have a foot-and-a-half gap to leave room for the load. Then forklifts can drive up to the side of the car to unload it.

If something happens past the switch to the RR’s line… it’s the shipper’s fault. They have to take care of the problem.

12

Not neccisarliy. If something happens on a customer’s siding, first thing is the local trainmaster (or operating person in charge), someone from the industry, the head of the local MOW department, and perhaps the head of the car department all sit at a big table somewhere and argue and point fingers at each other.

In all seriousness, it depends on who did what. If a RR crew takes out the bumping block at an industry, the RR is going to eat the cost of a new bumping block. Or if they drag a car through a run-through switch and toss it on the ground. Or if they pull a tank car that still has a hose connected to it. The unwriteen rule is that if you coupled to it, then you bought it. That’s why you ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS do a walk-around of EVERY car at an industry. Sometimes these industries will run through a switch or derail something, but won’t tell anyone, hoping the railcrew ends up creating a mess and fixing it for them.

But if it’s something like crappy track, then that’s the industry’s problem. Usually. It depends on what the consensus is at the big table that I mentioned above. There is no clear cut area on the RR. It’s all gray and murky.

Industry shifting is definately dangerous.

13

Would it be safe to expect that anything called a ‘siding’ very closely prarallels the main that it 'sides?" In that respect, a ‘spur’ would possibly parallel a main, but only for a short distance, if at all.

Must a siding have two joining ends with the main?

-Crandell

14

I’m sure each RR has its own terms it uses. I call industry tracks “sidings”. I use the term “spur” to describe a longer track that you have to go back to reach an actual customer.

I know we use the terms “signaled siding” and “controlled siding” to describe the mainline, parallel to the main track stuff. But I even get those terms mixed up. Diamonds aren’t even called diamonds, I think they call them interlockings or control points, or something. I miss NORAC… so much simpler than these hillbilly rules.

In conclusion, it varies.

15

Siding:

Railway Age’s daffynition: A track auxilliary to the main track for meeting or passing trains. (Standard Code)

Spur Track: As distinguished from a side track, a spur track is of indefinate length, extending out from a main track

Simmons-Boardman’s daffynition: See Track, Siding…Track, Siding = A Track, auxiliary to a Main Track, usually to allow TRAINS to pass each other on a SINGLE TRACK

See Track, Spur…Track Spur = A generic term used to describe any light duty TRACK that branches off a MAIN TRACK. Generally, a SPUR TRACK serves the industrial customers of a RAILROAD

…both Railway Age and Simmons-Boardman were last seen off in a corner frying their precious few remaining brain cells trying to figure out a definition of what a “Zugman” is.[:D]

There is no such thing as a main line, the proper term is main track.

If we ever get beyond siding and spur, then we can get into multiple main track naming conventions, drill tracks, crossovers, lead tracks (industrial and switching), way tracks,runaround tracks, control sidings, directional sidings and all that related fun stuff.[:-^]

PS - Zuggy, think crossing frog. (Lots of things can be an interlocking)

Constants aren’t, variables won’t.

16

On pennsy territory, it’s definately the mainLINE. [:D]

17

Someone earlier mentioned the industrial track/spur being signalled. The one I’m thinking isn’t signalled and I see nothing that says END CTC/BEGIN CTC…how is that authority handled? Part of the track warrant from Point A on Main Track to Industrial Track XYZ at MP 123? Would the the spur be ‘insulated’ from the main to prevent signals from being dropped (provided the swtich is “normal” and locked?

Thanks for the excellent replies so far. Very informative.

18

But you just hinted you are now living in GCOR’s universe[swg][swg][swg]…as they say, “Learn it, Love it, Live it”…

19

Industrial spurs that enter onto a main track or controlled siding that is operated under CTC as the Method of Operation or within the limits of an interlocking, that use a hand-throw switch to enter the main track or controlled siding, and maximum authorized track speed is greater than 20 mph, require either an electric lock on the hand-throw switch or a leaving signal on the industrial spur per the CFRs.

An electric lock is an electromechanical devices with a locking road that prevents the switch from being operated if the main track or controlled siding has an occupancy or the signal system has detected an approaching train. If there is no approaching train or occupancy, then when activated, the electric lock places its own occupancy onto the main track or controlled siding, causing signals facing the electric lock to display red, which in turn causes approach signals to those facing signals to display yellow, and so forth. A timer runs on the electric lock intended to enable an approaching train to brake, then when the timer runs out of time it releases the locking pin in the turnout, and the turnout can be operated. Railroads prefer not to use electric locks because they’re maintenance-intensive – the mechanical part of the device is finicky. Instead, they now prefer to use leaving signals.

A “leaving signal” is an absolute, non-controlled signal. “Absolute” means it cannot be passed when displaying red withou

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whew![swg]