one sign showed up on the river line (sub) It has a yellow and a "\ " on a orange backround any ideas on what it means?
Which railroad? The are a number of River Subs on various railroads.
CSX Ex Conrail riverline
its called an advanced warning sign… it is put up 2 miles befor tempory slow orders and 707 MOW work zones…
csx engineer
Is that different from Form B (if I remember correctly) work?
ok… althow the risk of sounding like a dumbass here…(since i work for the outfit and all) but i dont know if Form B is what they changed the 707 work authority rules to or not…they reissued our rule books with a NORAC CSX blended type of system…and changed eveything around as far as rule numbers…so it might be Form B now… and since i have been working in the yard for the past year… i dont remember alot of the road rules without going to the book…and the ones i do remember…i remember under the old CSX rulebook…not the NORAC/CSX blended one…
so to awnser your question… i dont know without going to the book…and i dont have them with me at the moment… if it is the same thing or not as far as rules…
csx engineer
Not trying to put you on the spot hoss. I was just remembering about a year ago Ed was talking about Form B and who owned the track and the limits. Just curious…heck I’m no expert either.
Dan
oh ok… you didnt put me on the spot… i just didnt want to damage my credibilty to badly…lol…
but that sign in question would be put up in advance of any MOW work zones and tempory speed restrictions… so the train crew knows its comeing to an active workzone…and can get permistion through it by calling the employee in charge of it… after you pass it…thier should be an all red board…(conditinal stop) meaning if you dont have the MOW work in charge permistion to enter his work limits… you better stop…going by a red board is a fireing offence just like going by a red signal without permition… or you will come to the yellow board that will designate the start of any tempory speed restrictions… both of thies will also be writin on the train bullitens…
csx engineer
Okay. Sounds like it might be the same, or at least similiar. Now what’s a NORAC? Does it take the place of GCOR? Or does CSX use its own rulebook?
Dan,
Divide the US roughly down the middle, the Mississippi works…
east side uses NORAC, west side uses GCOR…and Canada has another rule book!
I have no idea what NORAC stands for, GCOR is General Code of Operating Rules.
The sign described is, for us, a speed restriction sign, used to give advance warning of a slow down or stop…it is placed ahead of any place that requires a train to slow to a speed that would allow it to stop within 1/2 the visual range of(fill in the blank) including a red flag.
If a tie gang was out replacing a few old ties under traffic, they would place one of these ahead of where they are working to warn you they are there.
Your track bulletins and slow orders would also give you the information that a tie gang would be working under traffic between (station) and (station)…
The yellow/red would be followed by a yellow, (slow to restricted speed, GCOR 6.28) or a stop, (red) flag depending on the conditions.
If a form B was in effect, or csxengineers form 707, it would be a red flag, stop.
If you have not already contacted the employee in charge of the work zone, you do so now to get his/her permission to proceed.
You do not move until you have such permission, unless you want a long un-paid vacation.
Your track bulletin would also have this infor, and a copy of the form B(707) and the name of the employee in charge.
If you have received permission in advance, you do not have to stop at the red flag, but may proceed at either the speed the employee in charge tells you to use, or restricted speed, which ever is more restrictive.
If the work was being done under traffic, then it would be a yellow flag, (slow to restricted speed) and you can keep on going, looking out for men, equipment…
Some where past the work zone, you will find a green flag, (resume track speed) and as soon as the lead wheels of your train pass the green,
Well, I couldn’t didn’t find the rules themselves yet, but NORAC means “Northeast Operating Rules Advisory Committee.”
In addition to bulletins, I’ve always heard the DS include any restrictions when they issued a Form D (now the EC-1 here) - ie, “single track out of service between milepost 77.8 and milepost 78.3 in charge of Foreman Mudchicken.” Since the crewmember copying the EC-1 has to read it back, there’s no question that somebody on the train knows the restriction will be coming up, and who to call for permission to pass.
Not to argue with Ed, but the GCOR provides for 2 types of yellow flags. The yellow-red sign is red with a yellow hourglass on it. It is used in advance of a gang. The plain solid yellow sign is used in advance of a temporary speed restriction.
So if there is a gang working between mp 90 and 91, that will not require stopping the trains, at mp 88 I will find a yellow red flag and at mp93 I’ll see the back of a yellow red flag. There may be green flags displayed at the leaving ends of the restriction. If a stop is required there will be a red flag two miles for the yellow red flag at the beginning of the restricted area.
If there is a temporary speed restriction (no gang) between mp 81 and 82, I will see a yellow flag at mp 79, the back of a green flag at mp 81, a green flag at mp 82 and the back of a yellow flag at mp 84.
A yellow doesn’t follow a yellow red. Two separate uses.
You also can’t speed up until the rear of your train passes the green flag if there is a speed restriction associated with the yellow red flag or its a yellow flag. If you speed up after the lead wheel passes then your train will be still be in the restriction and the track may not be safe.
Dave H.