Remember growing up as a boy, we always wanted MORE POWER. Bigger V8. That has not changed.
Even the kids today want bigger power. Macho stuff, on a 18 inch radius no doubt.
Rich
Crandell, we don’t really know that because we don’t know how many Big Boys Athearn, Rivarossi, MTH, and BLI have produced or sold vs how many 2-8-0’s and 4-6-0’s Bachmann has sold.
Could be Bachmann has sold way more of those, than all the Big boys put together two or three or ten times over? We just don’t know.
Sheldon
Bachmann makes a Spectrum 4-6-0 and M.B. Klein has them in stock for $189.
They also have a Spectrum 4-4-0 and a Spectrum 0-6-0t
Non Spectrum there is a 2-6-0, 2-6-2, and 0-6-0.
Enjoy
Paul
While it is admittedly not possible to produce specific figures for the number of units actually sold, there can hardly be any question that an item like Bachmann’s 2-8-0 has far out sold any combination of other manufacturer’s Big Boys, or similar engines, in the past ten years. The Big Boys, et al, are all from companies well known to be producing limited runs and these are generally run only one time. These runs are so small that they usually sell out in a very short time, or may even be all pre-sold (i.e. indicative of very low production numbers).
Bachmann, certainly a larger company by a whole order of magnitude than its competitors, has produced run after run of their same item. And unquestion
The smaller loco, a B&O ten wheeler, had 8 bidders, 5 of whom bid over $150 with a final price of $200. This loco is an older brass model, from the late 50’s or early 60’s I believe, and as such may need remotoring and additional work, and is likely not as detailed as newer offerings, brass or plastic, not to mention DCC if the buyer uses DCC. This is a model only a die hard B&O fan or a knowledgeable free lancer would care about.
Precisely. A freelancer could use the engine or a B&O fan could use it. However, the partisans of other railroads will pass it up because the only thing it really has in common with the 4-6-0’s of other roads is the wheel arrangement. Simply centering the headlight, dropping an oil bunker in the tender and painting it for the Southern Pacific would generate hoots of derision and not sales from the SP crowd.
Right now, there’s an SP T-31 4-6-0 up for bid on EBay with a minimum bid of $290 and a Buy It Now price of $325. The engine will probably sell and it wouldn’t surprise me to see it go for the BIN price. However, the purchaser will not be someone who just wants a 4-6-0, but will be an SP fan. Varney could sell its “Casey Jones” (based on the SP T-28 - similar to the T-31 but with Stephenson valve gear) to everybody in the 50’s in part because most modelers were content either to letter it for a freelance road or letter it for a prototype road even if it didn’t resemble anything their favorite road ever owned. That’s not the case now. If someone wants a model of a modernized Santa Fe 3400 class Pacific, slapping “Santa Fe” on a Mantua Pacific (or someone’s rendition of a USRA Heavy) ain’t going to cut it.
Problem is, the farther back you go, the more steam variety there is and it makes it a bit more problematic to choose a locomotive, especially if you’re trying to appeal to the prototype crowd. The way that appears to make most sense (to me at least) would be to create a line of locomotiives
I think that most people who purchase a Big Boy et al only purchase one and not several.
However, it’s possible that people who purchase smaller power purchase multiple copies.
I have something like eight eight Spectrum 2-8-0s and four Spectrum 4-6-0s, two large drivered and two small drivered. I’d love to get a few decent, Spectrum quality, 2-6-0s.
Then again, I personally purchase multiple road power, steam and diesel, as I don’t like single units except for yard engines. I much prefer the fleet approach and limit my purchases accordingly. I like my operators to say, “Ah, the local has No. 183 today” rather than “Ah, the local has THE 2-10-0.”
The Bachman 2-6-0 and their 2-6-2 are just the Bachmann 0-6-0 with a pilot truck added for the 2-6-0 and a pilot and trailing truck for the 2-6-2.
Hardly a world class model, and they’re cheap in both price and quality. 
Hi!
May I jump into the pot?
The larger steam loco models tend to get a lot of attention, and that’s understandable. However, there were a lot more “smaller” steamers on the rails from the Civil War thru the early '50s. The model manufacturers know this, but they also know that - typically - attention equals sales.
One of the major exceptions to this is the Bachmann / Spectrum 2-8-0, which has been with us for 40 years plus in one form or another. I suspect most of us have or have had one of these. There have been some others, especially those built by AHM years ago. But while other small locos are available today, they just don’t seem to sell - perhaps partly because of poor performane and/or quality.
My favorite steamer is the ATSF BLI 4-8-4, which happens to be the biggest steamer on my layout. I would love to have some 2-8-2s, 4-6-2s, 0-8-0s, 0-6-0s and the like, but there just isn’t anything out there that meets my “needs”. FYI, my “needs” are a bit more specific than a generic loco with my favorite roads (ATSF & IC) decaled on it.
Regarding price, its just not a whole lot more expensive to create a 4-8-4 as opposed to an 0-6-0 if you are starting from scratch. The larger one will take more material, and a somewhat larger motor, and perhaps some additional details - but the total cost is just not all that different.
All that being said, I believe that the model mfgs are mainly looking to produce “sure things”, and in special runs to assure total sales. I can’t say I blame them, but it sure would be nice to see some more attention to those smaller locos that did all the grunt work for so many years.
Mobilman44,
I must take exception to some “facts” you seem to have wrong. The first Bachmann 2-8-0 was indroduced in the early 80’s. And while I know that is a really l
My take would be that would imply that the majority of model railroaders on this list are NOT “serious” model railroaders based on the number of people trying to figure out hw to get a big articulated engine around 18" radius curves and through #4 switches.
I would still contender that manufacturers will win over.
COnsumers can only vote so much with their $$$. ANd lately consumers have been “demanding” Big boys and large steamers that the manufacturers are all to ahppy to produce for those who will buy them at their higher prices. We have a scandanavian modeler on here who bought 25 Big Boys, simply to Have them simply becasue 25 was the real number of BigBoys produced in real life.
We will end up buying what manufacturers produce, or we will not buy anything and suffer ourselves, or take old stuff that many complained was crap and less detailed and buy it off ebay to rework.
Someone who speaks chinese well, can gather statistical facts that are acurate for potential sales/profits, and can travel to a chinese model train manufacturer and present the facts may get teh manufacturer to answer teh USA public’s demands. But there are to many IFs in taht statement.
The manufacturers HAVE tested teh waters to see about answering our demands. In the form of: pre-orders for certain locos with potential delivery dates. SInce they don’t get the pre-orders we all hate so much, they don’t produce and our demands are not met, and may not be for the next loco we “demand”. And we have proven we are having none of that blind pre-order or advanced reservation stuff. MAybe eventually manufacturers will get it that we don’t wnat to do business that way, that we want product delivered in a timely fashion and on the shelves in sufficient quantities to satiate our desires, but until then and in a model we wil run on our railroads, we have to do it their way.
Like cars, we WILL eventually buy what the auto manufacturers build when we need a new car, regardless of whether it’s what we demand or not. Or we will buy old cars to fix up, or we will buy no car and suffer public transportation. SOme cars like the retro camaros or Mustangs may be available on a limited basis, so if you want one, you will pay the
After all this conversation it should be clear that resistance is futile. The only answer is to bite the bullet, throw in the towel and model Pennsy. A whole world of abundance will open to you. Probably every PRR loco ever rostered, at least for the past century, is available in some form and priced from cheap to wowser! Come out of the shadows and into the light. Start modeling Pennsy tonight![(-D]
Atlantic Central,
My memory isn’t perfect, but I am fairly certain I had a Bachmann 2-8-0 in the '70s. Perhaps I rounded up to “40 years”, but if I missed it by 10, does it really matter to the discussion at hand? I also stated that the Bachmann / Spectrum 2-8-0 has been around (a long number of years) in ONE FORM OR ANOTHER. My meaning behind that was the Company was building a 2-8-0 for a very long time. I had two of the Bachmanns that I eventually sold, and traded up to 3 Spectrums of which I currently have two.
I did not mean to convey a problem with quality in either them or the older AHMs (which I had quite a few). FOR THE TIMES, you got a really good loco for the money. Those older ones if put out today would just not match the quality of what so many of us expect for today’s production.
On, while I never got to work in a hobby shop, I’ve been a steady patron of them since 1957.
Right after they pry my gun from my cold dead hands.
Sheldon
Why? Pennsy, founded in 1846, disappeared over 40 years ago in the Penn Central merger. Union Pacific, OTOH, has existed continuously for 148 years and some months. Of all the class 1’s, it’s the only one that still exists with its corporate identity intact. The rest of them have disappeared as the result of mergers and aquisitions. You can legitimately model the UP from the 1860’s to the present day. You can’t say that for Pennsy or any other erstwhile class 1 for that matter.
As for locomotives, you can claim the same the same thing for the UP, especially since Pennsy’s acquisition of new power ceased with its disappearance into Penn Central.
If the point is to outwit, outplay and outlast, UP wins hands down. UP survives, Pennsy hasn’t been on the island for years. [(-D]
Andre
As was stated a few posts back, I think by galaxy, the fact is that there is a give and take in the hobby. The importers do have to make a buck, and they need us to supply the buck. But who is doing that? Somebody is speaking with his wallet big time out there. BLI has surely sold out the second (different) model of the UP 9000’s to be produced inside of two years. BLI just put up a series of photos of their painted model. Trainworld doesn’t have any Rivarossi BB’s left…not a one at their bargain basement prices? Why is that? The second run of BLI’s Q2’s is all but spoken for, and try to find a Paragon2 Y6b at a substantially discounted price…that isn’t on eBay.
I do most emphatically agree that if we, as a group, get really loud and snarky about more choices, but mostly if the larger Pennsy/UP/SP/N&W/C&O stuff begins to gather a thick layer of dust, the importers are sure to hustle just a bit to get the sales ringing once again.
Talk’s cheap. We do a ton of it here most days. But the importers let the sales to the speaking for the hobby as a whole.
Crandell
And that appears to go for big diesels as well, Crandell. Just look at the Centipede offering by BLI. I think it’s been out less than 6 months now and they went like hot cakes! So much so that BLI already has a scheduled 3rd run due out for release in Spring of '11. [:O]
Personally, I think the Centipedes are ungainly and awkward-looking beasts. [+o(] Lash two together and you have over 183’ of locomotive. (2.1’+ in HO) Even if it had a NYC herald pasted across its nose, I still wouldn’t own one.
Just like in life, people seem to naturally gravitate towards the impressive - i.e. the “Texas-mindset” phenomenon: If it’s bigger; it’s got to be better! Although the bigger locomotives may have been the “bread 'n butter” of the RRs, it was the smaller locomotives (e.g. switchers, MIkados, etc.) that held the RRs together and kept them running on schedule.
I am glad to see some of the smaller diesels - e.g. Atlas’ Alco HH600/660 switcher - getting released. I’d equally like to see some of the smaller steam in plastic.
Is it fair to say that the larger steam came out in a time where it was less likely to be “altered” or “customized” for a specific RR than earlier small steam? On second thought, a NKP or PM 2-8-4 Berkshire looks very different than a B&A or P&LE Berk. Course, that could also be said for some of the ubiquitous Mikados built for the various lines.
So, with all that said, I’ll end by quoting Emily Patella: “Never mind.” [:$]
Tom
Crandell, The point remains that sold out or not, we don’t know how many locos those Q2’s represent. Again I would bet ALL the Q2’s don’t equal one batch of of Spectrum 2-8-0’s. If BLI is making money that way, good for them, but they are missing a lot of my money, and apparently a lot of money from others on here as well.
All the while I continue to buy stuff like Bachmann 2-8-0’s - I’m planning for a few more right now. One or two that will be kitbashed into more accurate C&O 2-8-0’s, a few more for the ATLANTIC CENTRAL and one or two to be kit bashed into 0-8-0’s just like the B&O did with many of its 2-8-0’s in the later days of steam.
Bachmann has already made way more profit just selling ME 2-8-0’s than BLI makes on a Q2.
The score remains something like this (including diesels):
Proto2000 50 +/-
Bachmann 33 and likely growing
Athearn 12
Intermountain 9 and likely growing
BLI/PCM 9 and likely done
Atlas 0
MTH 0
Kato 0
Sheldon
Personally, I don’t see any reason to buy the newest and greatest. Wait a few years and buy older stuff from the people who have to have the newest and greatest. For example, I’m now in the market for a couple of Proto U28Bs, and they’ve been out for five years now. Good deals to be had, too.
Talk’s cheap. We do a ton of it here most days. But the importers let the sales to the speaking for the hobby as a whole.
Crandell
Maybe we’re going about this the wrong way. We do know that Bachmann is quite willing to do small to medium sized locomotives. Rather than wasting effort railing against the likes of BLI and MTH, maybe the focus ought to be to encourage Bachmann to get a bit more creative with their offerings. They’ve already got most of the tooling it would take to make a serviceable version of one (or both) of these: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2585Z2.JPG
or (same design, different details): http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/UP201.JPG
They’ve already got the cab and tender tooling for one of these: http://donsdepot.donrossgroup.net/dr1002/sp2321.jpg
UP had similar engines and they are good layout sized engines. SP also liked to play musical tenders and the USRA medium tender closely resembles some of the ex-EP&SW tenders occasionally used on SP’s T-28’s. That would appeal to the freelance crowd. The T-31 class had Walschaert valve gear and is also an option for Bachmann.
The Pennsy K4 chassis could be used as a starting point for one of these: http://www.railarchive.net/gmogallery/alton5296w.htm It wouldn’t be dead on, but it would be close enough to satisfy all but the most anally retentive.
Same goes for this: http://www.yesteryeardepot.com/SP2458.JPG Identical Harriman heavy design, different details. Use the K4 chassis, new boiler, USRA medium tender, cab from the 2-8-0 and you’ve got a nice generic Pacific that’s nearly as adaptable as the 2-8-0. The only really new tooli
