The real question is how small can the trains be and still be satisfying to you? That’s the size to go with.
If you pick N, build the layout very high, 55 - 60 inches depending on your height. It will look a lot better just below eye level.
Enjoy
Paul
Please explain the difference between HO and HOn3. Is the body size the same but the wheel/truck size and spacing different? Or is HOn3 between N and HO scale? Also what about availability of choice of engines, cars, etc? Are as many engines found in HOn3 as with HO?
HOn3 resembles 3 ft. narrow gauge in HO scale. Locos and rolling stock are slightly smaller, but HO structures, vehicles, figures are the same.
HOn3 is really a niche market. Other than Blackstone, there are hardly any manufacturers around. Choice is limited, and what´s on the market ain´t no bargain.
LOL
Jon
HOn3 doesn’t really seem to fit the Original Poster’s interest at all, IMHO. 3 foot gauge railroads disappeared for the most part by the 1930s and 1940s, thirty years before his desired time-frame. So the models are of older, smaller, quainter equipment.
I was not able to follow the Orignal Poster’s description of his space very well, perhaps others did. Here’s an example of an HO layout in 8X10, with solid walls around it. If the OP can use some of the surrounding space for aisles, more is possible within the 8X10 space itself.
Here’s another HO 8X10 layout example around-the-room with a duck-under, lift-out, or swing-gate. A little broader radius is possible (24" here vs. 22").
One could accomplish quite a bit more in N scale in the space, of course, Here’s a modern N scale layout example using 13 inch minimum radius (equivalent to nearly 24" in HO). There is plenty of room still for aisles here, so obviously the radius could be broadened even more. 13" radius in N scale will handle just about all equipment, 15" should accommodate everything.
Byron
I think I’ll stay away form HOn3. With the examples of possible layouts in both HO an N it seems I can create a really good layout in an 8’ x 10’ in HO and an even better one in N. When I figure out when I can have even more space in the 35’ length of the room my my basement I will have an even better HO or N layout.
For right now lets say I will stick with HO scale in the 8’ x 10’ space. As mentioned the era is from 1971 to the present. I will probably stick with 1971 to just before cabooses were no longer used, mid 1980’s. Now to decide what type of train I want to start with in this layout. The layout I am building for the Hy-Vee train is not going to be used for this. I am wanting a new better quality train set. Let’s start with brand. What is a good quality train set brand from 1971 to the mid 1980’s that includes engine and cars?
BTW I have discovered, with the Hy-Vee layout and what trains I have seen, that I like themes. For example a military theme, or beer train theme that I could center around a brewery building, etc.
Thanks.
Modern equipment and locos tend to be longer than transition era stuff (except the Big Boys and the other huge locos that were steam’s last hurrah). You will probably need at least 22" radii on your layout to run this stuff.
On the other hand, most of the “themed” sets that I’ve seen are designed to run on 18" curves, so you’ll be ok if that’s all you plan to run.
I am going to guess that what model railroaders run is personal choice, correct?
If that is correct is there anything wrong with running themed sets, with a continuous run of track connecting them together, leading to a round house and rail yard with maintenance shop where I can park the engines and cars when not in operation? When I do operate them I connect the engines to the appropriate cars, run it to the part of the layout that it goes with, based on the theme and enjoy.Though it may not be your preferance or “cup of tea”, does anyone see a problem with this?
With a round house, does one have to have a turn table? Are round houses and turn tables even used after 1970? Or has their use dwindled since? If it has, what is used for full size modern applications? Is it more of a maintenance shop with track runs going in and out with out a turn table? If this is the modern application with full size please advise of the technical term.
It’s your rail road you can do whatever you like.
There are a few turntables around, but most of them are gone.
Without a turntable there is no way to get into and out of a roundhouse, but there are engine houses and transfer tables that can do the job. Most maint facilities today use switches to get in the various bays.
The maint. bays and switches it is. I take it when an engine is just parked it sits on an open section of track next to the maint. bay? Or are they usually connected to the rest of the consist?
I think I will start my layout by building the maintenance bay with rail yard first in the section I currently have available to start with in my basement.
I know I can decide on shelf or bench work. I’m going with shelf because the basement floor is uneven in places.
I have looked and cannot find a modern looking HO scale diesel locomotive maintenance building. I’ll also need one for the cars too. Can anyone provide a link for me?
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12447.html
If you should develop a desire to understand how real railroads work and how they might be modeled:
http://www.kalmbachstore.com/12148.html
Smile,
Stein
What a modeler chooses to run, or not run, is purely up to that modeler. The only way anyone else gets a vote is to marry him…
While most roundhouses are either history or in use for some other purpose, I can think of four that are still in use:
Except for Rapid City, the steam operations supported are tourist oriented. Rapid City hasn’t seen steam of any kind for a LONG time.
The rectangular building with parallel tracks is simply called a shop. The SP had one for steam at Gerber, CA (inside a wye, so it didn’t need a turntable.) My prototype usually used a rectangular shop to service all kinds of motive power - the turntable, if any, was frequently located elsewhere.
Turntables have fallen into disuse - a wye or balloon track is much less expensive to maintain and can turn an entire train in one movement.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with 2 turntables and one shop)
For those of you who have a balloon or reverse track set up do you put the maintenance and yard in the middle of the loop because of the large amount of space available created by the loop? Where do you tie the yard track in with the loop track?
I just did some measuring in the room of my basement where the train layout will go. Here are the final dimensions of space I have to work with:
At one end 8’ in width that tapers down to 4’ wide. The entire length is 27’. At the other end that is only 4’ wide a train will need to loop back around for the return trip.
In your opinion is that enough to get as many HO scale themed train set layouts as possible with the yard, maintenance building and balloon or reverse loop at the end that is 8’ wide, using 22" or 24" for the radius?
After the trains leave the yard each theme train would stop at its respective section, using a siding, what ever it may be.
For example if I were to keep the Hy-Vee train set, or if Hy-Vee does not want it I will use it on the permanent layout and put a food distribution warehouse on the layout where the train can pull up to the track side doors with semi trucks leaving from the truck side docks on the other side of the building.
Another example is a passenger train would pull into the depot for loading and unloading of passengers. Another theme could be a train full of grain pulling into a Co-Op or a coal train pulling into a coal fired power plant.
Or would it be best to go with N scale?
Hi
Read the books proposed by Stein first.
Make a precise drawing of your space and post it on here. with all obstacles and open sides clearly indicated.
As far as I am able to understand your posting your wishes are as follows:
You want a loop to loop plan with a return-loop at both “ends” of your plan.
A return loop at the 4 feet wide site will have a radius of 18". You need some space between the tracks and the wall. Those 18 inches are great and enough in N-scale for any train you would love to run. In HO any car or engine longer then 60 feet will cause problems. Which means no passenger coaches nor modern long freight cars are possible. They require a min radius of 30" , so a 6 feet wide layout is needed for a 180 degree return curve.
These facts and many more can be found in the books mentioned by Stein. Only when accurate, sufficient and relevant information is given worthy replies are possible.
Paul
Paul:
A 22 inch radius curve takes 44 inches to turn 180 degrees. That will fit on a 48 inch (4 feet) wide bench. While not ideal, most modern equipment can negotiate a 22 inch radius curve. I have 85 foot passenger equipment that has no problem with 22 inch curves.
While N scale is growing rapidly, it does not yet have the variety available that HO does. I am not sure what the OP means by “themed trains” but he needs to be certain that they are all available in his chosen scale.
hi Phoebe
Hi phoebe,
one inch between the tracks and the background wall seems good practice to you. Just as what some cars could probably do when being pulled in short consists, with cars of about the same length. I would prefer to stick to accepted good practice and keep the 1:2,5 or 1:3 ratio between the length of your longest car and the minimum mainline radius.
Of course the OP will make his own choices.
If you had taken the time to read through the whole thread you would have known what he means by “themed trains”.
At least the 4 feet wide end of his layout might be conflicting with his wish to run long coaches or long modern freight cars. Especially when they are not only pulled and mixed with shorter cars.
Abilities to tinker with equipment and building immaculate track-work are important as well, just like a meaning about what is looking right. IMHO a 4 feet table width excludes the use of long equipment in HO.
Paul
This discussion from a while back may be of interest: http://cs.trains.com/TRCCS/forums/p/162497/1790167.aspx#1790167
You can have a roundhouse without a turntable or a turntable without a roundhouse. You can have a rectangular enginehouse.
The Reading roundhouse in Wilmington that was accessed by switches was used until the Conrail takeover in April 1976.
The B&O’s Riverside roundhouse (accessed by a turntable) was in daily use through the 1970s. It was torn down I guess around 1980 or so to make way for the new I-95 tunnel. It was common in the 1970s to see Budd RDC cars being worked on in several of the stalls alongside the engines.
Paul:
Your statement that anything longer than 60 scale feet requires at least 30 inch radius is inaccurate. I merely pointed that out. You are confusing what is ideal with what is possible. I suspect that you are just trying to convince the OP that N scale is his best choice.
I did, in fact, read the entire thread, and your sarcastic claim that I didn’t, and I still don’t know what he means by themed trains. It could mean anything from industry specific unit trains to Coors Silver Bullet trains.