I have limited space, and I’m considering not having a yard. [:-^]
I do plan a couple of passing sidings and several industrial spur tracks. But I’m planning a shortline mountain road, actually modeling a mountain gap as the dominant layout design element, and space allowances, now that I’m into my benchwork and can see the reality of the space…I think I don’t have space for anything that would do justice to a yard and not look squished between the mainline and the mountain. Plus, I imagine not a lot of railroads would have yards at the base of a mountain pass. So I’m thinking of discarding it and just going with the passing sidings for interchange work, with staging hidden behind the wall.
Is there any basis in the prototype for a significant shortline that didn’t possess any kind of significant yard? Does anyone have ideas on what might be a tenable substitution for a major yard, with all the track and associated space that would require?
I think the yard thing is the most sketchy aspect of my layout plan. So any advice is appreciated. In any case, I’m not the type who enjoys yard switching most, I like running between points. But is a model railroad without a yard, even a small one, a fatuous proposition? How much yard track lines would a shortline RR usually require?
In proto-type terms, yes you need a yard.(To my knowlage. Maybe some one nows somthing diffrent.) Especally if it’s a bridge company that connects two big railroads. But in modeling terms, you don’t. If you have stageing, that makes the yard right there. So you don’t need a yard on your layout if you have stageing. But to my knowleage proto-types need a yard.
EDIT: I correct my self. Proto-types don’t need a yard. If they are really small. Like lets say the railroad only has 20 miles of trackage that connects with two diffrent railroads(Or the same). They have interchanges at both ends. They send the loco down to the interchange to pick up the cars, and set out to the diffrent towns. They would only need a Runaround by the industries/town. But if it was the Same 20 mile railroad that connects 2 main lines of a big railroad. And that is the only way to connect the two main lines. Then yes, proabaly for the proto type. But you don’t need a yard in Modeling Railroading.
While there are a lot of reasons why a railroad needs yards, that does not mean that you have to model a section of railroad that has a yard. Your yard can be off-layout.
No, you don’t need to waste space on a yard if you don’t want to or enjoy other aspects of the hobby more. And you can still be prototypical if that is important.
If you have limited space by all means, a yard is not required. You may be able to build a double decked layout with a staging area under the main railway but required?..certainly not! The idea here is to have fun with the trains and don’t try to keep up with the hypothetical “rivet counters” in the crowd. If all you have room for is the set up you described than go for it!
I think, everything is ok. You have simple your yard out off your modelled part. If you have a staging yard (and you should have at least one track which serves as staging track) you have a yard. [:)]
No you do not need a “yard” in the traditional sense, Its good to have if you have the space, but its not “required”, no matter what anyone else will tell you.
Now if you would like to run trains more “proto” but dont have the space for a traditional “yard” what you should try to do is to provide is whats called a “fiddle yard”, basicly a siding where trains can be taken off the layout and new trains placed on it. The “fiddle yard” takes the place of a traditional but often very space consuming railroad yard. The fiddle yard can be used to exchange cars, assemble trains, reverse engine direction, etc, all the functions that a yard would normally be used for.
A fiddle yard should not be visable from the primary view of the layout, its often behind a backdrop or scenery, yet it should be easily accessable so the changes can be done. Fiddle yards are very common on small or micro layouts.
Using a fiddle yard in the simplest sense is like this; assemble train one on the fiddle siding, train 1 goes out onto the layout, train 1 does it switching chores and when done either goes onto a siding on the layout or back to the fiddle yard to be removed. train 2 can be assembled, then sent out past train one, train 2 does its chores, then either returns to the fiddle, or makes room for train 1 to return to the fiddle. once train 1 is off the fiddle, then train 2 can be returned to the fiddle , and train 3 can be assembled.
Most fiddle yards try to consist of at least 2 tracks so 2 train operation can be done easily.
Some here are refering to a staging yard or staging sidings, its basicly the same concept.
My opinion is that you need something like a yard, but it might be staging. If you are like so many of us, you will end up with more stuff than you can fit on the layout. If you don’t want to be using your hands all the time, then you need tracks that interconnect to an extent that allow you to access the layout without handling the rolling stock and locomotives.
No, you don’t have to have a yard…but the omission of its capabilities could leave your potential layout experience and enjoyment lacking. If the yard really won’t fit, then figure out where to have a type of off-layout staging.
A good chunk of my last layout was a iron ore yard, for handling ore cars and moving them up to an ore dock for unloading. But, if you remove the iron ore part of the operations, general freight and passenger trains operated without a yard. A general wayfreight started at the staging area - one track built along one wall, with space near it for storing cars to “fiddle” together a train. From there it entered the layout, a free-standing 6’ by 16’ area. It served a couple of industries, went thru a reverse loop (and stopped at the depot for water if steam powered) hit another industry or interchange going the other direction, and ran back into staging.
In retrospect, I would try to add space to stage 2-3 trains at once, instead of one at a time, but otherwise it worked fine.
This is a great topic! Let’s try to keep it sensible and not degenerate into name calling.
I say you do need a yard. I say that with the caveat that you will be building a model railroad, and not just modeling a train. No matter how small the prototype they all had some type of rail yard, if only 3 or 4 staging tracks (often incorporated into whatever passed as an engine repair facility), in order to have a place to build and break trains. You need a similar place on your model railroad to do the same. Now whether or not the yard is actually on the deck or not is dependant upon many personal factors. For a limited space railroad you could have a fiddle yard under the bench work on a sliding drawer or something, the possibilities are unlimited on how to do this.
Is it a sin not to have a rail yard on a model railroad? Well, not exactly, but it’s questionable.
I think many of us, myself included, percieve a yard as being many tracks wide and a mile+ long, and forget that a yard can be as small as a single siding, especially in the shortline world, were a single tracked interchange yard may be all that is needed to drop off, pickup and rearrange cars. The size of the yard is dependent on traffic requirements.
Now, do you need one? Only if it is required in the scope of your planed operations. As others have said it staging can represent your yard. I personally require one, but i like switching, a lot.
It’s not a sin as such but a yard is nice to have especially if you have a lot of equipment. I also have limited space and decided only to build a limited size intermodal yard and no staging yard. Now I regereted to build a staging under the layout because I got so much equipment and putting different equipment on and off the track is a bit of a pain. So if I have a staging yard, I woul not have this type of problem.
No it is not, I have spurs that i put my cars on and a roundhouse and a turntable were my yard was going to be. So i put my engines in the roundhouse and put the cars other places on the main.
If you don’t like switching, skip the yard. You can use staging tracks, run the same trains back and forth or round ‘n’ round, or some combination thereof. This is a hobby so do what’s fun for you in terms of building and operating.
As to how big a yard would a shortline have? The real answer is enough to do the job, but 2 tracks could be a yard. Heck in a pinch the mainline and a spur could be worked as a yard - especially if you’re the only operator. But 3+ tracks looks like a yard. Also, shortlines don’t always have a lead or drill track, particularly when the yard is at one end of the railroad, so you can save that space. With a lot of shortlines “make do” is the order of the day, you could double up the interchange and the yard for instance with one track designated for the other road to use for pick up/drop off.
Sin? Sin? This is more than sin! It is a heresy of the first magnitude and heretics in model railroading are subjected to horrendous punishment, worse even than that experienced by Girolamo Savonarola in 1498. It is a truly horrible event to witness; three ‘no-yard’ heretics were punished severely at the national convention in Cincinnati in 2005; after being pummeled by a dozen MMRs for more than ten minutes with old pieces of Atlas brass Code 100 Super-Flex Track they were locked away in a room for two hours and compelled to watch films of Continental Airlines Boeing 767s taking off and landing at La Guardia in New York City. I can think of no more diabolical punishment than that. I have no doubt whatsoever that, after this experience, these heretics went home and immediately launched into an exhaustive yard building project. I can assure you this will never happen to them again; let us hope that this example will keep others from falling from grace!
Actually, yards take up a considerable amount of space and space is something most of us model railroaders always find in exceedingly short supply; yours truly is at least as short as most others in this regard. John Armstrong in his Track Planning for Realistic Operation talks about small ‘holding’ yards - he doesn’t call them that but I don’t have access to my copy of ‘Track Planning’ at this particular time so I will label these ‘small holding yards’ - anyway he talks about these ‘small holding’ yards found in industrial areas and which are used to assemble or break down trains. Keep in mind that ‘industrial areas’ are not necessarily urban areas; mining complexes or milling complexes or packing plants in fruit growing regions can all be ‘industrial areas’. These ‘holding’ yards do not have to be particularly large - the largest I have ever had is three track
Well… If you compare the amount of land occupied by yards versus the amount of land outside of yard limits on prototypes, you’ll find yards are a small percentage of the total land used by a Class 1 RR.
Some people who use a “railfan” versus “operating” philosophy for model railroading build vignettes of their favorite mainline trainwatching spot and just run trains through that. No yard is needed if that spot is a hunk of mainline, although it cetainly helps to have staging, which is usually some form of yard.
So short answer: You don’t HAVE to have a yard, but some kind of staging is a good thing and staging often uses a yard.
Like most others said, a yard isn’t necessary however very useful. My father and I have been blessed with plenty of space to do (almost) everything we (my Dad) wants to do, so I don’t have much experience in space-saving. However, what I do know is that you will certainly want a track or two of staging and storage. I would suggest that each is long enough to handle the largest train you’d run.
If your primary modeling interest is trainwatching, you need a yard about as much as a shark needs ice skates. Back in the dim past, I recall seeing a layout that was a simple loop with a (concealed) passing siding. The builder wanted to get the sensation of looking down on trains snaking through a canyon, so he built the loop of track just above floor level, then modeled the canyon up to about normal layout height. The hidden siding was under the canyon’s near rim, behind a door in the fascia.
In the prototype, any passing siding can serve as a “yard,” where cars can be sorted into proper order for delivery. More than one short line terminated in an interchange with a larger neighbor - two parallel tracks, each owned by one of the railroads, connected by two crossovers. The spur end of the short line would provide parking space for cars awaiting pickup.
Obviously, a, “Three man and a dog” short line (one locomotive, and the GM’s wife is the station agent and office staff) will be a lot less formal about things than a Class I (voluminous rule book, Brotherhood agreements…) Typically, it would only have the minimum number of turnouts needed to permit operation. For such a railroad, a traditional yard would be a costly luxury.
Chuck (modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - with lots of yards, all but two hidden)
I am building a small yard at this time. The way I see it, a good yard is a foundation of a railroad while Staging is the anchor. Yes my space is limited but it is a yard that should work small or big.
The secret is isolating the yard lead/arrival/departure so that the road engines stay OUT of the number 4 switch territory. They get number 6’s where they need to go.