So....tell me about the Pennsy...

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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I have been a die hard B&O fan for years. B&O is the first railroad i can distinctly remember (Bright orange and yellow Chessie/B&O diesels rolling through Phillippi, West Virginia, when i was a child) and my former layout was small (by HO standards) but a B&O layout. In HO, things were scarce, but available. In N…well, lemme say i am jealous of you Pennsy fans.

Not only are there a couple nice PRR specific steamers around, there are PRR specific hoppers (bowser has 2 different hoppers, 2 cabs, im sure there are others) decals, buildings, and now a GG1 from Kato.

Dont get me wrong, us B&O guys have it alright. The Spectrum 2-8-0 that is such a popular lil critter looks like a direct clone of an E-27 (i havent got one yet, but wow from each pic ive seen, they are CLOSE) The B&Os Q3 Mikes were just USRA light mikes, their T-3 class mountains are pretty close to the spectrum Heavies, and i think there is an 0-8-0 runnin around out there thats based on the L-2 class…There are no B&O “specific” hoppers available in N scale, but thankfully most of the B&Os hopper fleet was pretty generic. OS 2 bays…check. OS 3 bays…check. OS quads…

The bad part is, no availability of B&O specific cars or cabs, no decals, no B&O “signature” engines yet (someone, cmon…knock it off with big boys already, tool up and make an EM-1 or Big Six). The lack of decals has brought my hopper fleet project (62 cars atm and growing) to a screeching halt. This, sadly, is probably the hardest barrier to hurdle, as i am too computer illiterate to design my own decal sheets, even if i could get a printer to make them.

My whining notwithstanding, can anyone point me to a good PRR site? Would like to get a “feel” for the Pennsy…and im gonna order me some of them hoppers from bowser anyways, PRR cars certainly wont look at all out of place in a “B&O” train…presuming i ever got them marked for the B&O, that is. Maybe ill just

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It’ll help to know what scale you’re dabbling in.

Atlas makes a 2-bay hopper in N scale that’s a pretty close match, and they’re introducing an offset side hopper that I believe is based on a B&O prototype. There’s also wagontop boxcars available, although outside of brass, I don’t know of any wagontop cabeese. I’d like to have one of them myself.

Maybe you don’t need to change prototypes, just scales!

Lee

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Tim,

Here’s a very good one:

Keystone Crossings

I model the New York Central so I sympathize somewhat with you. The Pennsy guys really have their act together when it comes to prototype information being readily available.

Tom

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Ah, i suppose i could have been a bit clearer about the time and scale. B&O in N, in the summer of 1948, just for those so-ugly-you-gotta-love-em LL-1 class 0-8-8-0s. Problem with a lot of B&O models is that they have the large “B&O” in HUGE letters on the sides of the car…which is well and good, but didnt appear until 1952-ish.

Ill need to check out the Atlas model, though if its just a scaled down version of their “Trainman” offering in HO, it is a nice model. The hoppers themselves for B&O arent at all hard to find, as theirs were pretty standard (i think the majority of the N classes, as well as the W-7 triple 70 ton hoppers, were actually AAR designs). Its the decals that are killing me.

Or maybe im just trying to justify having another bunch of stuff i “cant live without”.

Anyways, im gonna spend some time on that PRR site. Thanks guys!

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Heh, That’s why I model Hagerstown in 1971… B&O, N&W, Reading, Penn Central, and of course, Western Maryland!

[8D]

Lee

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You may be disappointed to find out that there are, in fact, no decent ready-to-run Pennsy steamers in N scale.

Years and years and years ago Minitrix made PRR-style steam; these included a K4s 4-6-2, a B6sb 0-6-0 (both looked pretty correct), and a a “foobie” I1sa class 2-10-0 made by cramming the K4 boiler onto a German mechanism.

All 3 steamers can be found at shows and on eBay. But they run badly copmpared to today’s standards and all have very deep flanges (only work on code 80). None are easy conversions to DCC either. However, I use all 3 for parts.

The Precision Craft Models ready-to-run sound-equipped PRR M1a/b 4-8-2 in N scale is, by all insider accounts, never going to be made due to “lack of demand.” PCM had what many considered an unrealistic expectation for pre-orders.

Pennsy steam in N scale reuqires either the skill to re-motor the old Minitrix engines (you can grind down the flanges too) and add new electrical pickups, the fat wallet for brass (which doesn’t always run well in N scale either), OR what I do…

I kitbash my own PRR steam. If you’re up to a real challenge, GHQ makes a cast-pewter with brass convserion kit to change the Kato 2-8-2 (one of the best running N scale steamers ever made) into a PRR class L1s 2-8-2. The kit is very difficult and took me several months, but the result is worth it.

Then there’s what many do, by taking the Minitrix boilers and cabs and adding them to other mechanisms that run better. These usually result in nice running but not 100%-correct locos. That’s what I do. Here are my three Pennsy steamers (each represents several months’ work):

Click to enlarge. From left to right:

H10sb 2-8-0 #8756. It’s a Bachmann Spectrum chassis with a chopped-down Minitrix K4 boiler and a B6sb cab. The tender is also modified. I d

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The PRR Technical and Historical Society (search for PRRT&HS) has about 1 year of “Keystone Modeler” available as pdf’s on their site (go to the national site).

Excellent resourch for modeling in general. As it has been pointed out, if you are modeling any road in the 1950’s, you are also a Pennsy modeler. They have articles on how to build virtually every class of PRR gon.

In addition Teichmoeller’s “Pennsylvania Railroad Steel Open Hopper Cars” describes every class of PRR open top hopper car there is (the modeling is HO oriented but their are gobs of plans, drawings, photos and charts).

Dave H.

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Back issues of the Keystone Modeler are available on CD from the PRRT&HS. It is about five years old now. Make sure you subscribe and you will be sent a link in an e mail every month to go right to the new issue. Most importnatly after you download it save it and then you will always have it at your finger tips. Also download the combined Keystone Modeler, B&O Modeler, SCL hist. society combined effort FGEX reefer compendium. 81 pages of nothing but FGEX reefer info.classes, descriptions and eveyrthing needed to model them at whatever level of detail you want to tackle and all of itis free.

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Dave, those three are beauties!

This PDF about reefers, does someone has link?

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Some day, I want to model at least an interchange with the Pennsy, just so I can have a GG-1.

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Aaaah, i thought that Precision had released the M-1, and also thought someone had done a K4…appears i was mistooken! That stinks too…i have always thought that the M1/M2 was probably the prettiest steam engine of all time.

I plan to order a couple of the L1 kits from GHQ (i have to admit, PRR engines are pretty beasts. I love the squared firebox, long, lean look, and the overhanging cab roofs and i see nothing wrong at all with a few PRR critters runnin on my layout) I have been buying minis from GHQ for years, those guys are top notch.

If i can ask, what did pennsy use for its coal drags? Did they doublehead a lot, or did they have some articulateds? On the more familiar (to me) B&O, coal drags, at least on the west end, were pulled by ELs and EM1s, PERIOD, until the coming of the diesels. I havent found much reference to PRR articulateds, however.

Im well into my first scratchbuild of a steamer in N, an EL-1 for the B&O. Ive got the pilot just about done, need to build the majority of the boiler yet. Hopefully will post pics in a week or two (TY Bachmann for your beautiful extended Vandy tender, btw! PERFECT match for the EL!)

Off i go, to read more PRR stuff. Maybe the PRR, not the B&O, would obtain control over the Western Maryland. PRR on one side of the Potomac, B&O on the other…[8D]

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Pennsy tried articulateds around WWI, but no luck. They had several ex-N&W 2-8-8-2s thrust upon them during WWII, but they saw little service.

Most steam-powered coal drags had a single M1 on the Middle Division or a J1 on the Pittsburgh Division with helpers over the top at Gallitzen.

Pennsy’s mainline grades were west of Altoona and east of Harrisburg; the fabled Middle Division was all river-level so rarely required doubleheading steam. Diesels, yes, but M1s could do the job one at a time for coal drags.

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I was just getting ready to hit the “quote” block on this topic when I encountered your response. I was going to quote the ’ . . . . . couple of steam engines . . . . ." and say “name one”.

This scale is incredibly bereft of steam locomotives in general and very good running steam locomotives in particular, and, considering that they have two of the largest technical/modeling societies, PRR and AT&SF have been neglected. Santa Fe has had its Northern but, as your response points out, it’s been a coon’s age since PRR modelers have been offered anything from the manufacturers. This lack of quantity and quality is one of the things that keeps me an internal combustion modeler.

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if someone could, could you post a link to the thread where Dave scratchbuilt the M1? Ive used the search function and cannot seem to locate it. Thanks!

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I have threads scattered about on it. Other forums I’ve posted a more coherent construction log. But I have it in mind to publish an article in a magazine about it, so I don’t want to give too much detil out; not fair to the magazine.

Some bits here:

http://www.trains.com/TRC/CS/forums/1306614/ShowPost.aspx

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Ahh, magazine article would be better yet. Easier to set that near the workbench. I will keep my peepers peeled.

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Hey, I edited my post above and added a link to a thread with some detail.

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2-10-0’s, “hippo’s”, lots of them (almost 600) I-1’s. Waaaaaaay cool engines. Haul as much as you want anywhere you want it, as long as you only want to go 25 mph. :sunglasses:

The vast majority of the “articulateds” on the Pennsy were electrics (GG, DD). The Pennsy did have on class of its own steam articulated’s, class CC-1, 0-8-8-0 drag engines used in Ohio I believe. In 1947 there were 10 of them on the roster.

Actually the PRR controlled the N&W and the LV.

The WM is another big 2-10-0 user, although theirs were designed for higher speeds. The WM and the RDG shared trackage, the WM used 2-8-0’s, 2-10-0’s and 4-8-4’s while the RDG used 2-8-0s, 2-10-2’s and 4-8-4’s.

Dave H.

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If I wasn’t so married to my freelanced Western PA road I devised and the modern era, I’d probably have a track plan of part of the Conemaugh division kicking around waiting for space and money. Do wish I could track down detailed diagrams of the trackage in my home town though. Track charts only show so much of the picture, you know? Probably could try to track down the Sanborn maps but I’m not sure when those actually would be from.

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Hey, good call… Almost forgot about the Pennsy’s 598 I1-class 2-10-0s.

They served in all sorts of capactities… Up on the PRR Northern Division and Shamokin branch, it was not uncommon to see a coal drag with 4 2-10-0s! Two up front and two pushing on the rear, of course…!

I’ve been thinking mainline… but forgot all about the PRR’s many coal branches. Lots of doubleheading there.

And, you’re in luck. Just this fall, Railroad Model Craftsman ran a 3-part article by Max Magliaro on kitbashing an N scale PRR I1sa 2-10-0 from a Kato 2-8-2 and the GHQ kit!