[:(!][:(!] Picture is worth a thousand words, Right? Well I have a few choice ones for Athearn that Bergie prohibits within the forum…
Gear tower from an Athearn Genesis 2-8-2… Sold the loco on ebay, buyer writes me and says motor just spins. Now, other than to take the photos, I had never had this loco out of the box and bought it new from an LHS. Can’t refund his money so I offer to fix it as I have another in pieces on the work bench. He agrees, returns the loco, now it’s fixed and will soon be back in his hands.
Athearn, er ahh, Horizon (or has Walther’s bought them too?) will recieve No more of my money.
This iissue is well known, and has been for a several of years. The Genesis 2-8-2 was pre-Horizon. And you do not have to worry about Walthers buying Horizon - they are not large enough to do that; Toyota buying GM and Ford is more likely.
The Genesis 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 projects were bought by Athearn after they were effectively done by Samhongsa in Korea - no longer in business. Horizon (Athearn) has been trying to get a supplier to make replacement parts - no small matter due to new design so that the replacements don’t fail, then new tooling, and getting the right export licenses for parts. In addition, they will not make any money on this.
The mistake Athearn made on the Genesis 2-8-2 and 4-6-2 is accepting a project that was complete, rather than managing it from the beginning. They have not repeated this mistake.
I do believe this is the first time I have heard/seen this specific issue. The known issue was/is split axle gears, and replacements are available from NWSL even though the installation of same is far from simple, but this does not appear to be an axle gear and the teeth are broken off. It is possible a split axle gear did lead to this result. Apropos of nothing, in the box or not, I would not bet heavily anything was completely “new” anymore.
Athearn has supplied one round of replacement geared axles and then things got tangled in the Horizon buyout.
I have four Genesis steam locos, and one did have the cracked gear issue, and I fixed it. I like these locos quite a bit. I also remember when any steam engine one bought was likely to run about as good as one of the Athearn ones with a split axle, so no doubt that colors my thoughts.
Since you appear to have some repair skills, I would definitely talk to NWSL if I were you. I do not recall exactly, but I think the axle gear and the idlers were the same size so that could be your answer. Good luck.
No, It is not the axle gear. The gear missing the teeth shown in the photo is the gear that meshes with the worm gear. In order to get to the part shown, the entire loco must be dismantled and the frame halves split apart. If I had dropped it or somehow abused it, I could understand this kind of damage but that isn’t the case. I’m well aware of the split gear problem and when the buyer wrote of the problem that’s what I thought had happened. Being that I now have a genesis 282 without a working gear tower (had to sacrifice one of my own to fix this one), I may call NWSL and see if they have a fix. No, it is not the same size as the axle gear. There are actually two gears in that little package, a compound gear that meshes with the axle gear and the one shown missing the teeth. Oh yes, btw, the teeth Were in the gear box grease. I find it extreemly disappointing that, brand new, out of the box, this is what I find. I have a BLI Mikado that I’ve run the he11 out of without a sputter since I purchased it last summer. Even if they have to be without sound (for $$ reasons), they pull FAR better than the genesis models and to date, are 1000 times more reliable. Guess who’ll be getting my money for the rest of my 2-8-2 fleet.
Because you didn’t drop it is no gauruntee it wasn’t. Could have happened in the factory, container, distributor or anywhere else. What you are saying is you got a car with a ding on it and it is the factory’s fault. Not necessarily.
Difference is I can see the ding on the car and refuse delivery. Regardless of what happened or where, Athearn (er Horizon) will recieve no more of my money.
Just because one locomotive doesn’t work doesn’t mean all Athearns are bad. The 2-8-2s are known for gear problems. Perhaps you should’ve checked that out first. Athearn made up for the 2-8-2 big time with the F units and the 4-6-6-4 Challenger.
Point taken rolleiman. I hate it when I save up, anticipate, and pay good money for a pig in the poke.
I know I was more than a little upset when I found out that our friends at Bachmann stuck two really crummy motors in a Spectrum GE 44 Ton Diesel Switcher that basically burned up after only a couple times around the layout by itself. Bachmann knew this was a problem from the start, but basically shrugged and told me and my LHS to buy one of their new improved Spectrum GE 44 Ton Diesel Switchers that came with a single motor because I may have abused the product. Yeah, whatever.
What does that have to do with anything? This was purchased New, WHEN released, Long before the gear problems were known, at least to the public. At the time, the biggest problem they had was that they didn’t pull worth crap. Still don’t.
You’re probably correct there. Silly me, I thought 3 running would equal 4 running (from the same lot). Past experience with Athearn (BB) had proven the brand to be reliable. Two of the others were sold off long ago and the 3rd is the one I had to use to fix this one.
While I’m sure that many out there are enjoying thier challangers and F units, I frankly couldn’t care less about them (the products). No use for a challanger and I have F units coming out of my ears (almost).
I prefer to concentrate on fixing this one. Athearn may not get any more of your money but they already got THESE $s. I love BLI, but my Athearn 2-8-2’s run smoother, and with the added weight they don’t pull too bad.
I would mike the diameter, and get a count on the teeth, and call NWSL. They already know what the axle gear is so they know the pitch etc., and they may be able to fix you up. No way I could give up on a dead steam engine (much less one I paid the bucks you probably did for that one)… unless it was a Bachmann pre-Spectrum.
How do you know the eBay buyer didn’t do something to this loco? Perhaps he/she dropped it? Or maybe it got damaged in shipping. This happened to an ATSF K-line business car I got from eBay. The box was squished and the car was smashed [:(] , however the seller was very nice about it and the second one came undamaged.
A broken gear should not happen with a new from the box loco…but based on the facts given, it wasn’t new from the box once the eBayer ran it.
Anyway, if this was an Athearn defect, then it’s a big one and your boycott is understandable.
Even if I have to cut my own gear, I’ll fix the one I have left. There’s enough of the existing gear that I can get the pitch if I absolutely need to. That is, if NWSL can’t come up with something.
Southwest Chief, I don’t Know that it wasn’t dropped but I don’t think it was. No external damage. Not even a scratch. Believe me, that’s the First thing thought of when he wrote and looked for after verifying this was in fact the loco I had sent him. I’ve had people try that with me before on ebay sales (the reason feedback left on return basis only). Both ways, to the buyer and back to me, loco packed in original packing which basically renders the loco motionless in transit. No evidence of crushing either. One thing I Will say for Genesis is that these are Very well packaged. The way these are put together (two screws in front of the motor and two behind the motor holding the frame to the driver assembly with the gear tower in between), SOMEthing would have been evident if user damage had been the case. I think this is just sub-par manufacturing standards, poor choice of materials, or at best, shoddy quality control, and I choose not to take anymore chances with them. If there weren’t other options out there, I’d be disappointed but as it stands, I don’t need genesis.
No external damage definitely makes it seem to be an Athearn quality control issue. Too bad considering how expensive their genesis locos are.
I’m lucky my DCC/Sound Genesis F3 (A+B) came working, and continues to (knock on wood) work well. I too have had my share of factory bad trains. But nothing on the level of damage your steamer had [xx(]
Jeff–I heard about the split-gear problem with the Genesis 2-8-2, unfortunately, I didn’t hear about it until after I’d bought one. Right now, I have a smooth-running steamer that won’t haul anything, and just sits in my loco display case. But I’ve NEVER seen what you photographed–that’s just plain weird.
I can assure you, though, that the Genesis 4-6-6-4 that I have is an incredible runner and a powerful, smooth puller, and from what I understand, it’s virtually trouble-free. I think what others have posted about the early Genesis 2-8-2 problems has a lot of merit, but you might want to take some time and re-consider your opinion of Athearn in general. I think that Athearn bought those locos from the Korean manufacturer without realizing the problems involved, and now they’re pretty sorry they did.
If the Genesis 4-6-6-4 is any indication, the rest of their product is still pretty darned solid.
Tom
Tom, and others, I believe all of you when you say you are happy with the products. I’m not trying to convince anyone not to, just relating my particular experience. As I’ve stated in another thread, overall, I’ve been pretty lucky compared to some of the experiences I’ve read about here. So far, no cracked gears on the p2ks (knock wood) and for diesel power, I don’t need anything more modern than a GP-9. Even if I do end up with some cracked p2k gears, I have a couple BB Athearn drives I can scavange parts from. I realize the 282 and 462 projects were done out of house so to speak but I’m very suprised that in the, what, 8 years that these locos have been on the market, a reasonable solution couldn’t be found. It kind of makes me wonder if the horizon thing wasn’t on the horizon (pun intended) when these problems really started to pop up.
For steam power, I don’t need anything larger than a 4-8-4 (that’s the largest the Wabash ever owned) as I want to stick with what the Wabash would have run in the Detroit area so I have zero need for an articulated. That’s the main reason I sold the PFM L-131 I showed in the braggart thread. Believe me, I loved that loco (if one can love a toy train, yes I call them toys) and hated to let it go but I just couldn’t see letting it sit. My scanned from slide photo of that engine doesn’t come close to doing it justice. Anyway, I have but one articulated left and if I thought I could get anywhere near what I paid for it, I’d let that one go as well ( first run P2K Heritage 2-8-8-2 N&W).
I’m sure Horizon’s train division won’t go under without my money. They’re going to have to come up with something a little more generic than a challanger or big boy for me to reconsider them on steam power.
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