Is track “limited production” now too?
I am compelled to ask, taking in the amount of money spent on track and turnouts… compared to how much you have spent on other items for a layout… I’m guessing… my money spent… or that will be spent on track and turnouts… compared to everything else I have bought for Model RR… I’d guess…
its 1/10 of money spent on track/turnouts… compared to everything else.
What is your percenatage I ask.?
John,I been buying use track off and on for years with zero problems.
Again,never overlook the use market for nearly new items.I bought 7 use Atlas N Scale switches in near new condition for $1.00 each…I bought 2 use Atlas N Scale Alcos for $80.00($40.00 ea).I don’t think these engines was ever ran since they are in pristine condition.
A new Atlas N Scale Alco costs between $59.00-72.00…You know the price of switches
If its that easy and cheap, start your own model track making company. Chances are its not as easy as you say and its not as cheap as you think.
The most obvious cost you missed completely, the exchange rate of the dollar. That probably is the biggest incremental cost.
If you don’t like the price of track, change hobbies to model planes, then you can rant about how the price of balsa wood going up is driving people out of the market. 
Simply put if you don’t like the price, don’t pay to play. The G scale example, is a great one. But there are other facts that folks don’t take into consideration; in the case of G track, I was informed at the Amherst show by one manufacturer that the high cost was war related, as the components are shared with those of a military application type. Whether how true or not that may be, it indicates there maybe real world overlap that isn’t immediatley obvious.
Venting about the pricing of of something on an online forum isn’t going to reduce it, otherwise the price of gasoline would have dropped long ago.
What is clear, is that there seems to be much discussion lately, of things inconsequential. I’d prefer to see more hobby related, and useful topics receive as much attention as these discussions, and yes, I realize the irony of my reply.
With all the “philosophizing” and “soapboxing” its a wonder that you have time for the hobby.
Or maybe that is your hobby.
Some of us could consider how many hours we spend on forums instead of doing something productive.
Thousands of people find a way to build layouts and modules without the drama. And some of us probably have a lot less hobby money than the people who complain about prices all the time.
[An aside, part of the reason G track is relatively expensive is that it takes different plastics to withstand UV outdoors.]
HI,
Yes I agree whith all the comments of this post, track is very expensive and if you want to use fine one the cost is on the very hight side.
I use myself ME code 55 in Nscale and sorry for you US people but whith the change between Euro and $ this track is more affordable for me now.
I admit I didn’t use it if the balance between euro and $ would be on the other side.
Anyway this track is expensive. And you don’t know nothing about the European track maker; they offer track whith the price of gold, beleive me.
Peco seems to stay whith good price but a Nscale turnout in code 55 is around 17 euros or 22/23$.
I use also the fastrack jig, just because I found that handlay turnouts in Nscale is quite difficult seeing the small tolerances but they are expensive including all the small things you need whith the jigs, like track, PC ties, wood ties and the rest.
I don’t speak about the “twisties laser cut ties” Fastrack offer because they are out of reach if you need a lot.
But I also admit the turnouts made whith these jigs have the best running qualities and electrical continuity I ever see in Nscale.
Nobody had speak about the motors to move the turnouts…anyway lot of money also and always for track.
If we compare track whith scenery or even locos and cars, track is very expensive, to much.
Marc
I am sure that track manufacturers like Atlas, Peco, Microengineering et al, will be delighted to know that they should run their business at a loss, or at the very most, break even, so that all the other MRR manufacturers can sell more stuff!
This is after all, quite a small market, I am not convinced in my own mind that significantly reducing the cost of track would increase the size of the market at all. Most folks who are drawn to this hobby tend to limit their layout based on space availability. My layout would be no bigger if track were half price. I am curious how many of you out there would really have a larger layout if track were cheaper?
it all depends upon your attitude toward it. look at it this way, it keeps the riff-raff out of the hobby.
grizlump (grouchy german)
It occurs to me that a layout is a collection of components that is built to-suit a particular modeler’s space constraints and financial budgets. Accordingly my supposition is that the more track a particular modeler has the more subsequent scenicking he is likely to do. The more buildings he is likely to add. And the more locos and rolling stock he is likely to want to run. Further, the more track a modeler has, the more wire and electrical components he’ll need to electrify it and switch it. And the more wood or foam construction materials he’ll need to support it. And then the follow-on aspects, the more locos a modeler has-- particularly in the present day and going forward-- the more likely he is to want to use DCC, if he hasn’t already
You’re making the assumption that what everybody wants is MORE, that the goal of the hobby is to have as much as possible of everything that goes into it. Out here on the Left Coast that’s “Marin County Midas Disorder” (i.e. the idea that too much is never enough).
You don’t need an army of locomotives, actual miles of track and a layout the size of a small state to enjoy the hobby. At one point, Jim Six had 300 locomotives and no layout (an obvious drawback if you want DCC and sound). As he’s been building the Michigan Branch of the NYC, he’s sold off the locomotives to fund his DCC habit with the idea of limiting his roster.to 8 steam and 12 diesel units. The layout is 12x44 and is nothing more than a loop of track with staging at one end. All turnouts are hand thrown (no Tortoises to buy). It’s a shelf layout and doesn’t need hundreds of buildings to look populated especially since it’s basically rural.
Jared Harper’s Alma Branch is based on a Santa Fe branch in Kansas. From what I’ve read, his motive power roster consists of a single 1050 class 2-6-2 and a gas-electric car. The layout’s something like 22.5x30. That’s hardly the scenario you describe a
It’s a fact of life that the price of things go up: food, housing, merchandise, taxes, etc. Your choice is to either economize the best you can by shopping around for the best price…or manufacture the product yourself so that you can undercut the competition.
You can always find ways to get the most out of your hobby dollar. People have been doing it for years. For some, it’s sort of a game to see how inexpensive you can replicate something as good as or even better than what is available on the market. And you learn new skills by doing it.
Grab the challenge by the scruff of the neck Complaining is easy. Looking for alternatives is harder…but, oftentimes, can be more rewarding and less expensive. And, I agree with Andre who states that we often times don’t need as much “stuff” as you already have.
Bottom line: Find the areas of the hobby you can economize on and use that money to fund the areas where you can’t. It’s as simple as that.
My [2c]…
Tom
The price of almost everything goes up over time (it’s called inflation). That’s economics. If prices went down over time then no one would buy stuff today. Because they know it would be cheaper in the future they put off current purchases. That’s what leads to recessions and depressions.
This is NOT a cheap hobby. It may have once been, but is not any longer. Sure you can do things on the cheap and get buy, but when it comes right down to it, it you want to have a top notch looking layout it will be hard to do it on a shoestring budget.
Compare the price and quality of today’s models to the price and quality 15 or 20 years ago and the value for your hobby dolar has increased.
If you don’t like the price of track, and think you can manufacture it cheaper, then go for it. If you can truly build it cheaper than the others you’ll sell more than Atlas, Peco, ME, Walthers etc. and make a lot money doing it.
Nobody forced you into this hobby and is forcing you to spend money on it. If the cost is too high, change hobbies. Try model airplanes, except make one mistake and the airplane is trash; try model rockets at $2-8 per launch and risk losing it everytime you launch it. They’re all hobbies, meaning that you’re spending discretionary $$$. if you don’t have them to spend, then don’t spend 'em.
I don’t have a problem with anything you suggested EXCEPT that you’re going to pay MORE for all the stuff you mentioned than buying one of the premium brands. (Or at least as much). While you haven’t been looking the cost of ties, spikes, stripwood-- and most especially rails– has gone skyrocketing.
If you know of better pricing, and I mean seriously better pricing, let’s hear about it, I’m all ears-- and include sources please, I want to plunk down some cash and buy 1500-3000 feet of the stuff.
John
But you must surely agree that it is strange that the cost of handlaying your tracks is so much higher than readymade tracks. If the mfg cost is so high for ready-made tracks, how can the rails bought separately be so expensive? I can´t understand that equation.
After reading my original post and my subsequent responses, do you honestly believe I’m not doing that already? I economize at every opportunity. Just about everything I buy is secondhand or at greatly reduced prices on ebay and similar venues. And I take advantage of the occasional opportunities to buy stuff bulk whenever possible, including estate lots, close-outs, going-out-of-business sales, and the like. I scrounge for parts in all areas including many non-MR-related areas.
Secondly, the point of my original post was most decidedly not a complaint, or at least not an overt one, but rather pointing out what I think is a sorely missed business opportunity for a sharp-eyed MR mfgr-- to put out good cheap track to encourage folks to build their “dream layouts”-- or at least be able to afford
The ole ‘suck it up and take it argument’… tried and true… if you don’t like it, give it up.
Doesn’t matter whether my premise has merit or if the cost of track really is too high-- the simple fast is that nobody forced me to buy it so I shouldn’t question it…
Nobody forces me into buying milk or bread or eggs either-- and last time I checked cows and grass and chickens all made milk, grew, and laid eggs in entirely the same fashion as they always have-- and yet those things keep going up and up and up… Is it the cost of human labor? Not really. Feed? Nope. A good farm is able to overlap resources to be more or less self-sustaining. That’s the way it was for eons until “modern methods” came along-- and commercial concerns came in and started buying up the individual farmers to the point they controlled the bulk of the farms and were able to start ramping up the prices. Nowadays that milk, that bread, and those eggs are more expensive than ever, despite ever-improving methods of obtaining them, shipping them, distributing them, and storing them in the personal larder.
The fact is that we’re so used to this dynamic at this point that we’ve stopped calling anybody on it-- and in fact have just come to accept that its the way things are. High prices just are the way of things and you shouldn’t bother your pretty little head questioning “why”.
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.
And I don’t disagree with you that in-general, across the board, the value for your dollar has inc
If I understand your question right, I have probably spent in excess of $10-15k or so on non-track items. Perhaps a bit more. But I have bought very little of it at “retail” prices or anything even close to that. But I am a “value” shopper and will beat the bushes to find the deal I’m looking for. My typical cost for a new in the box P2K loco, let’s say a GP9 or SD9 or something, is probably $35-45 bucks. Occasionally more, often less. Most of the BLI’s I have were gifts so I can’t count them, I don’t know what was paid for them. I buy rolling stock at estate sales or online at rock bottom prices. I take the good with the bad and sort them out later. I buy building structures by the pound except for a few specific structures, and even then I looked and waited patiently until I could find them at the very best price possible.
But I don’t see what your actual point there is-- whatever I end up paying for track, which will probably be 1500-3000 feet, let’s say 2000 just to put it in the middle someplace-- it will be a lot. At regular prices, just buying atlas code 100 track would be around $3000 bucks and that’s not even counting switches or special trackwork. If I substitute premium track then the cost rises to $5000 or more and still haven’t accounted for switches. If I try to purchase the components and handlay it myself, the price is still in the same ballpark.
So very obviously the issue of price is not based on human labor.
I don’t usually have a problem with used locos and rolling stock. And I’m okay with used track if I can inspect it before purchase. But I don’t buy-- especially flextrack-- used online. I have been burnt by that several times and end up getting stuff that is problematic-- it is possible for one to be “too cheap” [:D]
Yup, its a wonder.
I believe that your premise is completely wrong when comparing these industries.
First of all the track manufacturers do not stand to make any additional money from the follow-on sales. if you get an HP printer, you have to buy HP toner/ink, HP makes a killing. Same with Gillette and the razor. This business model does not hold up for track manufacturers at all. If Atlas or ME sells a bunch of track at a loss there is nothing to compel the buyer to then get any additional Atlas or ME product.
As I said in my original response, I don’t think that cheap track will cause most folks to buy more track. It is my belief that space is the limiting factor for most, not track cost. Cheaper track does not mean buy more track if there is no place to put it. Cheaper track might mean more money to spend on other parts of the hobby, but why should Atlas reduce its sales so you can spend more with Bachmann?