Is it normal to have soft motor brushes? When I pulled the brushplate off my 1666, I noticed that the brushes and brush springs were stuck to the commutater face, I was able to pull them off easily though to clean the commutater face and the access carbon build up. I think the cause of this is that I’ve been pulling 13 modern freight cars with it, and the motor might have gotten pretty hot. Is this normal?
What did you use to clean the commutator up with, may have eaten the brushes. Most all the carbon brushes I have used/replace are pretty hard.
Isopropyl rubbing alcohol with a wash rag. Didn’t have any cottonswabs. I probably didn’t wait for it to dry properly. The commutator shines now though.
I never use liquids to clean a brush. If you must, just lightly rub it on a piece of constuction paper.Two to four inches is fine. Trick, from my slot car days when brushes were tiny. I use an eraser for the armature.
I use 400 grit or crocus cloth on the armature if you have grooves. Normally this is done only once when you get an old engine.
One rule people forget is the law of resistance. To get power to an electric motor use the largest gage wire to reduce resistance. If you don’t the motor works harder and will be short lived. For example the cicular saw on 14 gage wire over 100 feet. So think about your amperage and track feeds and pull those cars!!!
When in doubt replace the brushes. I am currently cleaning a 1956 44 ton lionel engine and rebuilding a 252 engine. The 44 tonner ran and I did everything I knew but could not get the 252 to run at all. I took the brushes out of the 44 ton and put them in the 252 and off it went. So I replaced the brushes in both engines. The 44 ton would go around the track at full power off a 55 watt transformer fairly well, but with the new brushes if I push the lever on the transformer more than a inch and a half it probably will fly off the track it goes so fast, and with the new brushes the 252 does the same speed at about the same setting.
So if there is any question replace the brushes I think I paid $3.00 for a pair and they also came with new springs.
Is it a good idea to have the headlight draw power from one of the wires that attach to the motor? The headlight cuts off when the engine goes into neutral. I didn’t know where the wire to the headlight should attach to. I’m guessing from one of the e-unit fingers?
You could run the headlight wire straight to the center roller pickup.
Lee F.
Connecting the headlight to one of the motor brushes will give directional lighting. Although not the standard wiring, this alternate scheme is mentioned somewhere in the service manual.
Back to your original problem, however:
The isopropanol which you used to clean the commutator shouldn’t have caused any problems, and should have evaporated relatively quickly.
My guess would be that there was some oil on the commutator face, which acted to help stick the brushes to it. Clean the commutator again, replace the brushes, and clean the area around the brushes thoroughly. This should prevent the same thing from happening again.
Do Not use “Isopropyl rubbing alcohol” when cleaning anything electrical!
The water and isomers in that alcohol are not good for contact surfaces, especially those that are carbon based.
Instead use denatured alcohol or contact cleaner!
If the brushes are original, it’s possible they slightly crustified from age or were attacted by humidity. I’ve seen it in a few cases. 90% Isporsyl Alcohol will not damage motor parts. Anytime you burnish electrical sufaces with things like track erasers, the surfaces should rinsed with solvent such as alcohol or mineral spirits to remove any loose particals.
There was some oil on the commutater face. I think I overlubricated that side of the motor with too much oil. I rubbed the brushes on a block of wood and then on a piece of typing paper. I used a pencil eraser to clean the commutater face. I guess I need new brushes and springs now. I put it all back together, runs same as it always does.
Ezak,
Your arguments against using isopropyl rubbing alcohol make no sense. Isopropyl alcohol contains only one isomer of propyl alcohol. That one isomer is isopropyl alcohol, isopropanol, 2-propyl alcohol, or 2-propanol(depending on your prefered naming system).
If there were any of the other isomer, called n-propyl alcohol, or 1-propanol, it would be obvious. n-propyl alcohol has a distinctly different smell, not unlike formaldehyde.
The water argument is also baseless. Freshly opened denatured alcohol contains about 5% water by volume-it’s not possible to distill beyond 95% ethyl alcohol/5% water under normal circumstances. Once opened, ethyl alcohol can absorb water from the air and reduce this percentage. Isopropanol is not nearly as hygroscopic, and thus will hold at 90% unless left uncapped for long periods of time.
Besides that, it’s just an all around better solvent for oils and grease than ethanol.
Ethanol is highly flamable, can harm some plastics, and corrosive to plain steel. If you don’t let the motor parts dry long enough, you may just shoot flames out the cab. I had this happen the other day with CRC contact cleaner.
Thanks for the Jump on guys!!!
First of all I assumed the use of normal 70% iso-alcohol. With 30% water it will cause corosion on rails and contacts. Also a carbon brush soaked with this will be useless.
Then there is this from a web site;
"Isopropyl alcohol is produced by combining water and propylene. …isopropanol is sometimes sold as “Isopropyl Rubbing Alcohol, 70%.”
"Isopropyl alcohol vapor is heavier than air and is highly flammable with a very wide combustible range. It should be kept away from heat and open flame. When mixed with air or other oxidizers it can explode through deflagration.[5] Isopropyl alcohol has also been reported to form explosive peroxides.[6][5]
Like many organic solvents, long term application to the skin can cause defatting."
Enuff Said!
In closing; I would just like to say that I know you guys over hear don’t care for me,But Hey, that’s life so get over it.[:-^][(-D]
Well, all alcohols are flammable, although the volatile ones are the ones you really have to watch out for.
Interstingly enough, ethanol will only burn when it’s concentration in water is 50% or greater. Before tecniques existed to accurately measure the amount of water in alcohol, it was common practice to mix a small amount of an alcoholic beverage with gunpowder, and attempt to ignite the powder. If the powder burned, it was “proof” that the beverage was of good quality. This is the origin of the modern proof.
By the way, I like to use CRC QD electronics cleaner. It contains methanol and petroleum ether, both of which are very flammable and also very volatile. Methanol, especially, burns with an intense blue flame that’s very difficult to see (a patch of burning methanol on a sidewalk in the middle of the day is nearly impossible to see). I’ve caught an O22 switch motor on fire before by not letting the contact cleaner dry.
Most contact cleaners, however, are safe, since they contain various halogenated solvents that don’t burn very well.
Pat,
I don’t have anything against you. I just call crap when I see it.
Even at 30% water, isopropyl alcohol will not normally cause corrosion unless you allow it stand for a while. Even water won’t cause immediate corrosion-I often scrub tinplate track with water to clean it. Just as long as it’s thoroughly dried, it won’t rust immediately.
And, I can read Wikipedia just as well as you can. Yes, we know it burns, but then so does denatured alcohol.
Better get your eyes checked! [:D]Denatured alcohol does not need to be “thoroughly dried” of water.
And here I thought you wouldn’t have to go so low as to have to use Wikipedia, being a chemistry major and all.[(-D]
Where did I say that denatured alcohol needs to be thoroughly dried?
In any case, denatured alcohol is general produced using conventional distillation-meaning that it has no less than 5% water. Look up “azeotrope” if you don’t believe me.
You guys care too much about alcohol!!![:P]
Oh great, I’ve been using rubbing alcohol for years on track and motor parts and you wait all this time to tell me I should not use it.