SOLVED Proto 2000 0-6-0 Dead Motor (with disassembly instructions)

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
21

There is not such question as stupid question. Here is the exploded diagram:

Proto 0-6-0 inside

I tried today my locomotive. It started to move (DC) with potentiometer turned much more than any other DC loco I have - it requires a lot to start to move. But when it moves, it moves beautifully, almost silently, without any jerking. It is relatively slow locomotive. Yes, it is a fast motor from above link, but this can be adjusted with CV 5. It is not a perfect solution but it would work. Furthermore, it is a small, very light locomotive - it does not require a very strong motor, because due to its weight and lack of traction tires, it cannot pull much anyway.

Hrvoje

22

Thanks a bunch!!!

I’ve never seen a steam locomotive with a gear tower. Thanks for the exploded view! It looks like he is stuck with finding a motor.

As it’s a relatively new locomotive I would think Walthers would have replacement motors for it. I would call Walthers support before I went over board. They might even have a warranty program if the magnets were defective from the manufacture.

Mel

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

23

Well, why not. Walthers maybe has replacement motor (but I assume, it will not be cheap). Or warranty claim could be used here. If I learned one thing from my two visits in the USA, a customer is a king. To try, it costs nothing.

All my steam locomotives have gear towers, e.g. from Roco, except if they were not manufactured by Fleischmann which does not use worm drive at all for small steam locomotives, and some big ones. So I was not surprised with this design. The problem is split frame, it is not easy to fit motor that has not exactly the same dimensions as the original one, and to achieve perfect meshing of worm and worm gear.

Here, it is maybe even possible to fit 16-17 mm motor - and for that dimension, there are a lot motors on the market. But to do that, it requires some milling/filing of the frame, and that is much complicated to do, especially if someone has never done such thing.

Hrvoje

24

Before I would trash a $100 locomotive I would really get after it with a Mel make fit motor! I’ve really cut up several locomotives doing a remotor, all run better than new!

If worse comes down to worse I would make a new frame for it.

I have built four of the frames above and working on the fith.

When finished they have almost 6 ounces of drawbar.

Mel

25

Here are the dimensions from the link in the OP:

I spent some time looking last night, but struck out. Maybe take a run at it again in a week or so?

26

Gary - yea I hope so! Seeing that most sellers ran out last year october, I hope that they will return someday.

Mel - that’s some wonderful machining for the frame you got there! I wish I had the machining skills like you! I’d argue that Proto 2000/walthers steam engines are probably the best runners/most detailed on the market. However, they are a real pain to take apart. This is my third 0-6-0 from them, and 5th proto 2000 steam engine(got three 0-6-0s, a 0-8-0, and a 2-10-2)

Hrvoje - the motor is a 5 pole skew wound. The tubing to change the shaft diameter is actually a really good idea!

UPDATE: After Henry pointed out that magnets aren’t made of zinc pest, that gave me an idea. The only way metal dust could get into the motor is either:

  1. the magnets were somehow touching the core, thereby wearing it out.

  2. dust somehow got into the motor during assembly…maybe dropped onto the floor during assembly and the magnet attracted some metal dust.

  3. the magnet somehow disintegrated due to just sitting there. (not zinc rot)

Here’s what I found after some careful prodding. There is still solid magnet under the metal dust. The core/armature/shaft had no scratches or signs that it had contact with the motor. In fact, the engine seemed brand new, no dirt on the wheels. It seems like the engine didn’t run out of the factory, since the metal dust prevented the core from moving. It didn’t short out the motor as the dust isnt attracted to the copper/other non magnetic materials on the core, rather just stalling the motor. That’s why the commutator and everything is clean.

This rules out possibility (1).

Second, I tapped the magnet with a metal screwdriver, hitting it and scratching it. The magnet didnt cracked/split/etc. When I tried scraping it, no further dust was produced. I couldn’t pry the magnets out of the motor either. It seems the magnets were solid.

Finally,

27

Very good Charles!!!

I would still see if Walters would replace it under warranty.

How about power, does it appear to run normal?

Mel

My Model Railroad
http://melvineperry.blogspot.com/

Bakersfield, California

I’m beginning to realize that aging is not for wimps.

28

Wow, that’s good news. I have two of these old Proto Heritage veterans and they both run smooth as can be. I recently ordered the TCS WOWsound kit for one of them.

Glad you sorted out the ferric dust problem [bow] Good Luck, Ed

29

[yeah]

30

Wonderful news! [:D]

If dust is not coming from disintegrated magnets (because they are in fact intact), it can mean that after careful removal of dust, motor will work normally and maybe even does not need to be replaced. Of course, if replacement motor is available again, it is smart to buy one, just in case.

Charles, can you please explain how did you open the locomotive? It has one screw in the smokestack. After removing it, is it enough to pry a little the cab sideways (it seems there is one clip on each side, under the cab) and the whole boiler and cab can be removed?

Hrvoje

31

Thanks all!

Mel - yes, it does run normal. I bought the engine from ebay so I doubt walthers will replace anything under warrenty.

Ed - yea, they’re a beaut!

Hrvoje - proto steam engines are a real pain to open. The 0-6-0 is a bit easier than their 2-10-2 and 2-8-4s which are a nightmare.

Here’s instructions for disassembly. This is for anyone who’s having trouble and lands on this forum page in the future.

To open the engine up:

  1. remove the screw in the smoke stack.

  2. remove the screw that secures the wiring plug, and lift the plug away.

  3. That should reveal another screw hidden underneath. Remove that screw.

  4. remove the firebox ashpans(?). I used a plastic screwdriver to gentely pry them out. They are press fit.

  5. un-plug the flexible piping under the cab from their socket. There’s one on each end. This is because the piping is both mounted to the boiler and the chassis. They are also press fit.

  6. carefully lift the boiler off the chassis by pulling up from the cab area. Then swing the boiler shell over the smokebox.

This is all fine and dandy, accessing the motor is far harder and it is likely something will snap.

To access the motor:

  1. remove the bottom plate holding the wheels, and unscrew the second rear bottom plate.

  2. gently pull out the essentric cranks on both sides, they are press fit. (I thought they were screws once and almost broke mine by twisting mine off!)

  3. remove wheels and springs.

  4. remove the cylinder/piston rod/crosshead/bell crank(?)/essentric rod/essentric crank/etc piece, it is mounted to the boiler via press fit plastic into the metal chassis. The part where the bell crank connects to the chassis likes to snap. Take your time.

  5. (optional) also remove the delicate ge

32

Dear Charles,

thank you for really extensive and detailed instructions. I tried to follow it, but I simply cannot remove the boiler without fearing that some part will break. I have Proto 2-10-2 and yes, it was nightmare to open it. But this one simply does not give up - even when I have done all you wrote, cab is still firm and cannot be lifted even a milimeter. The front is loose, but rear is the problem.

I wanted to open it to install cab light and maybe firebox flicker, two details which I add to all my steam locomotives. I know it can be done without boiler removal, but when boiler is removed, it is easier to position/hide the wires. I will try to figure something for cab light at least - it is not a must, just nice detail to have.

Ok, I also was curious - I wanted to see it from inside, I was like that since I was a kid - I had to disassemble everything -:slight_smile:

Luckily the motor and the whole drivetrain is working normally, I just lubed the gears and axles (I removed bottom plate), locomotive glides on tracks. If wires or something else does not fail, I will not have the real reason to open it ever.

Regards,

Hrvoje

33

Yeah, that motor really looked dead to me… Good job [Y]!

Simon

34

Thanks Simon!

I relate to that so much!

Did you remove the ashpans, and both screws underneath the cab?

Theres the one screw that holds the wiring hareness, then another below it.

Hope this helps,

Charles

35

Yes Charles, I did remove the ashpans, and both screws under the cab - one small holding the wiring harness, and the other, bigger below. But cab is still firm in place. This locomotive is so beautiful and runs perfectly that I do not want to risk any damage.

But never mind - until the motor/drivetrain fails, I will not have the reason to open it - hope it never will. The most important is that all gears can be lubed from the bottom, and front light is also easy to replace.

Hrvoje

36

I managed to open the locomotive. The reason I could not is that I did not remove the ashpans, but some other detail part(s) on the bottom - ashpans are on the side. When I was aware of that, I removed them. After that, it was easy to remove the boiler and a cab in one piece, without braking anything.

I wanted to open the locomotive because after careful study of exploded view, I realized that I cannot lubricate the worm/worm gear from the bottom. The reason for that is one double gear, so if lubricated only from bottom, grease/oil cannot possibly reach all gears and finally worm.

So, for proper lubrication, a locomotive MUST be opened. After I opened it, I removed a lid covering the worm:

!https://up.picr.de/38516984js.jpg

The worm was completely dry, despite the fact that I lubricated gears from below - so this was confirmation of my assumption/statement above. I used Labelle grease, and also light oil for gear axle of worm gear. Picture shows worm after lubrication.

After that I installed two LEDs for firebox flicker, and one in the cab for cab light. Blue wire of both was connected to existing blue wire, and the other two wires are going to tender. The cab light LED is also visible.

I also checked, just in case - a 13 mm cylindrical motor (e.g. Maxon) can be installed - this is good to know, if original motor fails and no replacement is available. On the picture below, I positioned such motor, but I will keep the original one - it works perfectly. I also added some lead in the shell, not much, but as space was available, why not to use it.

Hrvoje

37

Looking good! Glad you could figure it out. My 0-6-0 could also use some weight. I like your idea of using rolled up lead sheet.

Charles