If you can’t tell from my subject line question, I’m new to model railroading. Actually I’m returning to it after almost 30 years now that I have a son who has shown interest.
I’m the process of designing a layout and won’t be running trains on that layout for a long time. But to keep the boy interested i might purchase a locomotive (diesel) to run on a small DC layout in the meantime.(HO scale – looking for a diesel for some old freight cars I have that will run jsut fine)
The locomotives I bought back in the early/mid 80s were all Athearn. So I know nothing else other than recognition of names like Atlas and Bachman.
I do plan to learn and install a DCC system, so that will be a factor too.
Is there any general consensus on Athearn vs. Bachman vs Atlas vs (insert manufacturer name I forgot). Or is there some reading I could do so I make my purchase with better knowledge than I have now?
The question pertains to locos but I’d be interested in thoughts on rolling stock as well
Keep that son interested. I bought my son his first loco at about 5 years old+/- and it was one of the best things I did. I would definitely get some trains running this Christmas as well–good luck.
Anyway, as far as plastic locos, I would rank Atlas and Kato at the top for working well. There is also Mike’s Train House(I really like their SD70ACe), Intermountain, Proto 2000(by Walthers), Broadway Limited, Rivarossi, Athearn(different grades from the blue boxes to Genesis), Bowser and Bachmann as you mentioned among others.
Thanks Richard. I have my Lionel O-scale set for around the Christmas tree, which is what got him interested originally. Then I showed him pictures of the old layout from my childhood and he got excited about seeing that run.
My old locos might work for the short term, I guess, to allow him to see an HO train run. But the kid in me wants something new! And I want sound dangit!
I will be attempting to model the Minneapolis riverfront from the Great Northern era, which is also an era of Milwaukee Road in Minneapolis in the old Chicago, Milwaukee and St. Paul Dept. A few blocks from the famous Great Northern Depot. So I’ll be saving my cash for a Great Northern Empire Builder train to start with for the run (eventually) across that famous Stone Arch Bridge. And as long as I am making the investment I thought I’d ask the experts about manufacturers.
Can you tell I’m excited to get started! I never had resources like (well, like the INternet) when I was conceiving my layout back in the early '80s.
The Bachmann diesel locos have really come up a great deal in quality and appearance in the last ten years and are still some of the lower priced locos on the market. I have a GP38-2 and two GP7’s. All three have numerous hours on them and run extremely well. Detail is fair though not stunning (a step or two above Athearn blue box) but that means there’s less fragile stuff to be broken off. The GP7 comes with a dummy plug so the decoder can be removed for normal operation on DC. If the decoder is left in the loco will run slow on DC. That goes for ANY DCC equipped loco.
Athearn, blue box diesels, F7 and GP38. Dependable good runners. Reasonable price. Some simple kitbashing (painting truck sideframes, glazing windows, light shields on headlamps) improve the looks. They don’t sell kits anymore, but the ready-to-run locomotives are just the blue box kits, assembled. The “Genesis” line of locomotives is a complete redesign, new moldwork, very nice details, and higher priced.
Proto2000 Alco FA and FB hood units, BL1 road switcher, EMD E9 hood units. Dependable good runners. A bit nicer models than Athearn blue box, with a drive mechanism that shows its Athearn ancestry. Good looking, nice moldwork. Decent pricing.
One thing that’s changed from the “olden days” is that manufacturers today often have more than one line of products, so you can’t as easily say that “company A is good” or “company B is bad”. Athearn’s “blue box” line is pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago (althought the painting and lettering is much better), but their Genesis line is very very good. Bachmann still makes “toy train grade” equipment, but their Spectrum line (particularly steam engines) are really well made in appearance and running, and reasonably priced. Atlas has Trainman, a line of cheaper / less well detailed models that are still very good. Trainman diesels use the same motor and drive train as the higher priced Atlas engines. Life-Like (which was bought by Walthers) used to just make inexpensive trains that weren’t that great, but their Proto 2000 line has been making well made products for many years.
I have never had a Kato or Atlas engine, so I cannot say good or bad about them. What I have bought have been.
1 Proto 1000’s and 2000’s. Booth are great running engine lines. 1000’s have far less detail than the 2000’s. To me that means there less parts for me to break! [:-^] I have only killed 2 of them so far and I run them a lot and work them hard! Most of them have around 600 to 1000 hours on them.
2 BLI Blue Line. They are not being made any longer but I still like them. They come DC with sound, then you add a decoder when you go DCC. I have had 4 of them, 3 GE AC 6000’s and 1 RSD 15. They all sound great! But, the GE AC 6000 speakers are in the flue tank and they have very strong magnets in them. They have found and sucked every lose spike my layout has and are a pain to take apart. RSD 15 on the other hand has it speaker in the shell and sounds just as good!
3 Athearn RTR Line. Fancier Blue Box and I have no luck with them at all! I have 4, and all 4 now need a motor! But, as I said I run them hard and often, so you may have better luck. Many here have.
4 BLI and PCM Steam Engines. There Quality Control seem to be pretty much hit or miss in my case. But, there customer services department more than makes up for it! I have there Crown Jewel, my PCM Y6b! This thing has dragged everything I have lashed to it! I have pulled 70 cars up a 1.5% grade! Sound great and slow speed is fanatic with the Loksound 3.2 decoder.
You seem to be looking more towards diesel from your first posting, so I’ll give my opinions on currently available diesels from my experience.
Athearn:
Blue-Box kits are good, usually smooth running, and easy to work on. Quality control is ok on most parts, but the flywheels have often given me trouble.
RTR is anywhere from Blue-Box to near Genesis quality. My F7A was a smooth runner out of the box, but my AMD-103 needed a lot of work just to run properly. My Gas Turbine is one of the smoothest and strongest runners I’ve ever had.
Genesis is excellent from about 2003 and on. Early runs suffered from poor trucks, but they revised their tooling and have been great ever since. Detail is top-notch.
Atlas is one of the best brands of all. Detail quality in the Master series is almost unmatched, and they run perfect.
Bachmann:
Standard line from the past decade is a step above Athearn Blue-Box in performance, and about equal in detail.
Spectrum is their top-of-the-line product. They growl a bit, but they’re smooth, sturdy, and strong. Detail can be a bit off sometimes, but they still look very nice.
Walthers:
Life-Like brand is all that’s lingered on from the el-cheapo wars started by Tyco. Don’t buy it unless it’s under $3 and you like fixing stuff all the time.
Trainline is good. They’re about on par with Bachmann in terms of running, but they’re lacking in detail.
Proto 2000 is the high end stuff. It was the “P2K” BL-2 diesel that started the rise of highly-detailed plastic models, and they’ve always been near the top in terms of quality and performance.
Proto 1000 uses the excellent drive chassis of P2K, but has very basic detail (except for the RS-11, which even went so far as to have separate door handles!).
Kato makes the ultimate, unmatched runners in diesel. No one else makes such consistently excellent runners. The detail is a step below P2K, but still very good
Bachmann has been mentioned here quite a few times, with all hails to their products!
I second, third and fourth any recommendation of their locos!
I have 14 Bachmann DCC OnBoard locos and am VERy pleased with all of them! {both diesel and steam}.
Their Spectrum line is their cream of the crop. Nicely detailed and very good runners.
I have YET to send one into the service department for repairs in 6 years so I DON’T know about their award-winning service, but have read enough about it to know they take care of their customers…even if they can’t fix it…they will offer you a NEW loco to replace it! {may not be like what you had if they are now out of production, but you can choose often from similar locos I hear}.
So, while the standard line may be somewhat lacking in details to suit everybody, we have to remember your boy may not notice the difference, and honestly, neither may you…
I also have an Athearn that I like so-so. It is DC with the switchable DCC installed, but I can’t getthe jumper pins out to install the Decoder.
You didn’t ask about DCC systems, but you can start right off wihtt eh Bachmann DCC system right away for less money than other systems. I have it…{actually 2 of them} and they are great for just a few locos and simple easy to learn/do control. The DVD tells all, and some things are on You Tube also for easy look up. Here is a great place to buy a system WITH a DCC loco:
I would personally get the “old Athearns” running, I’ve converted some of mine , bought in the 90s, to DCC. and would presume that the same could be done for yours when you’re ready, though the likes of Darth Santa Fe would be able to confirm not only that but whether its also worth it.
As Galaxy has rightly pointed out lots have changed since the 80s.
If you look on the right of the page you will see, under your details the "Search Community " function. It can be quite helpful on finding threads which may have already discussed what you want to know, though I must admit that I quite often manage to use the wrong terminology and totally frustrate myself !!, so that is why I must add don’t be afraid to ask here.
I had started reading about converting DC locos but don’t know yet whether it’s worth it or not and how much hassle it would be. I have two higher quality locos from the old days, including a switcher that I really liked the movement of. Pulls lines of cars nice and SLOW.
However, I purchased those back when my criteria for railroads was different (whatever I liked the look of). One is a Pennsylvania and the switcher is a Seaboard. Nothing against those RR liines but they don’t exactly match my plan to model the Minneapolis flour mill district along the Mississippi riverfront.
Has anyone had success switching shells?
Also, I am aware of the coupler change. And I’m excited to be entering the era of better couplers because I want to run a yard and those old couplers wouldn’t allow that.
I have found a few shells at trains shows. I bought a Proto 1000 F3b shell in OKC for $2. I thought that was a bargain. Walthers has limited parts for Proto 1000 and 2000’s and will do some exchanges if there is a way possible. At least they have for me in the past. Train shows and EBay always seem to have shells and parts available. While Athearn BB supply is going down some what there is still a lot of it around. Of the new stuff the Bachmann DCC on board’s have a great value for the buck. When I can buy a nice looking new loco that runs good and has DCC for under $60 that works. Beware there are at least 2 grades of the Bachmann entry line with DCC on board. I have a GP40 and a GP38-2. The 38 is a lot better detailed and nicer. It to me runs a little better also. My bread and butter is the Lifelike/Walthers Proto 2000 line. More money but worth it.
One thing to consider in the Bachmann line is the new sound value locos. I bought my first one a few weeks ago (granted a steamer 2-6-0) an are very impressed with the quality and value for the money $95 I have not bought a diesel yet but if the quality is anything like the Alco I thinkyou will br happy. All my locos are Bachmann DCC on board they are noisy but I like the the growl. I had an Athearn but sold it when I converted to DCC. It was nicely detailed and ran well but they are fragile IMHO. I also have one cheap life like F unit but thats mostly for display.
Many good suggestions above. My locos are a combination fo Bachmann Spectrum, IHC Command XXV (no longer made), Walthers Proto 1K, 2K, and Trainline, and Atlas Master. All great runners, some less detailed than others.
One note, though. Walthers has recently changed their nomenclature. The basic models are still “Trainline” – good runners, not very detailed, inexpensive.
The former Proto 1000 line is now Walthers Mainline. Excellent runners (same mechanicals as their top of the line), mid-range detailing, mid-range price.
The former Proto 2000 line is now just Proto. These are the top of the line models. Run very well, highly detailed, expensive (but worth it).
And they still make locos under the brand name of LifeLike. These are, well, crap, to put it bluntly. Avoid at all costs, unless it’s a cheap throwaway model for your son to burn up!
The Bachmann Sound and Value Alco 2-6-0 model is a winner, as is the more expensive EM-1.
The Athearn (formerly Roundhouse) steamers are also winners–they look pretty good but run better than the Bachmann’s and are heavily upgraded from what Model Diecasting previously made. However, they are mostly DCC ready and few came with sound. Pricewise, the Bachmann is cheaper, but the Athearn steamers run better excepting I don’t generally care for rubber-tired steam. That said, I sold all my Bachmann’s (including the EM-1) and kept the Athearns.
Actually for all the attention Athearn receives for their diesel models, it is the steam mostly across the board (well, ok, excepting the first Genesis USRA steamers which had issues) which has impressed me the most. The Athearn QA/QC has been better than both MTH and BLI on the steam engines I’ve owned–and they run as well as anybody’s. I currently own the little Roundhouse 2-6-0 and 2-8-0, and have owned the Genesis Big Boy and a couple Genesis SP 4-8-2’s. The big Genesis steamers were fantastic, and I wish I’d kept the Big Boy but my son wanted diesels at the time…
In diesel, the QA/QC on the Genesis ones is not always consistent. Many are simply terrific, and some are not. Even two from the same production run may be different (and may not necessarily run well together in plain DC). I have owned Genesis F units, 2005 and newer, that would not mu but fought each other in plain DC and would become uncoupled on the layout…It does appear the 2009 and newer Genesis production is much improved. Wheel plating appears to be different (shinier but more durable) and QA/QC is generally improving on the ones I’ve seen.
For F Units and E units, I simply prefer the recent Proto 2000 ones mainly because their painting, fit and finish are very consistent, and for the roadnames I’ve purchased, h
The Bachmann Sound and Value Alco 2-6-0 model is a winner, as is the more expensive EM-1.
The Athearn (formerly Roundhouse) steamers are also winners–they look pretty good but run better than the Bachmann’s and are heavily upgraded from what Model Diecasting previously made. However, they are mostly DCC ready and few came with sound. Pricewise, the Bachmann is cheaper, but the Athearn steamers run better excepting I don’t generally care for rubber-tired steam. That said, I sold all my Bachmann’s (including the EM-1) and kept the Athearns.
Actually for all the attention Athearn receives for their diesel models, it is the steam mostly across the board (well, ok, excepting the first Genesis USRA steamers which had issues) which has impressed me the most. The Athearn QA/QC has been better than both MTH and BLI on the steam engines I’ve owned–and they run as well as anybody’s. I currently own the little Roundhouse 2-6-0 and 2-8-0, and have owned the Genesis Big Boy and a couple Genesis SP 4-8-2’s. The big Genesis steamers were fantastic, and I wish I’d kept the Big Boy but my son wanted diesels at the time…
In diesel, the QA/QC on the Genesis ones is not always consistent. Many are simply terrific, and some are not. Even two from the same production run may be different (and may not necessarily run well together in plain DC). I have owned Genesis F units, 2005 and newer, that would not mu but fought each other in plain DC and would become uncoupled on the layout…It does appear the 2009 and newer Genesis production is much improved. Wheel plating appears to be different (shinier but more durable) and QA/QC is generally improving on the ones I’ve seen.
For F Units and E units, I simply prefer the recent Proto 2000 ones mainly because their painting, fit and finish are very consistent, a
Yes, I have recently owned 4 Intermountain GEVO’s, an Alaska F-7 and a Lehigh Valley F-7. The F’s sit nose high, which is distracting on the layout when other F units are present, and I am unable to adjust the brand new Lehigh Valley unit to get it to sit level, and am rather disappointed with it. (I sold the other units).
For me, the P2K units I’ve owned have been better (this includes the latest ATSF red warbonnet/plated F-7 as well as previous blue/yellow ATSF F-7s, IC U30B’s, and the magnificently modeled RS-27).
I posted very favorable comments about both the GEVO and the MTH SD70ACe elsewhere online, but for me, their quality does not match the quality of the P2K units I’ve seen and owned, though perhaps sometimes they may compare favorably with some Athearn Genesis diesels.
The MTH SD70ACe weighs significantly more than the Intermountain GEVO out of the box, and thus pulls more for me.
Others will have different buying preferences, which is just fine.
John
P.S. I’ve liked Kato units in the past, but although they run great and go together well, their paint is not up to current standards in either color accuracy or clean masking, and they haven’t done any unit I’ve needed to own for many years…but my son and I now prefer steam and first generation diesels…all the “modern” stuff is gone save one Bowser Alco Demo C-628.