Did you (or anyone else on here such as Deggesty) ever get a chance to ride a Touralux? A description of the experience would be informative.
No, I was never able to ride on the Milwaukee until in September, 1968–and then I had a duplex roomette from Minneapolis to Milwaukee on the Pioneer, and a parlor seat in the Skytop observation car on the Morning Hiawatha down to Chicago. I did see a Little Joe, east of Butte, while on my first trip to the Northwest in April, 1971.
No my experience with the Milwaukee was Intercity trains from Chicago to Milwaukee before Amtrak took over. I remember the God awful interior paint (pastel rose, pastel blue, turquoise and birch paneling…with light blue seats) but thats about it. Oh yeah the floors were largely the paste by paste tile by that time, not carpeted and some of the tiles were comming loose.
Seen the the interior of the Touralux car in real life as it existed in Milwaukee Road times (there is still one of them out there floating around…no idea who owns it but I peaked on the inside).
For those that are too young, they are basically a Superliner Economy Bedroom but with two abrest facing seats (like a regular coach) with the wall to the hallway missing and replaced by a curtain. There is a wall behind each seat back that extends to the car ceiling. They had a slide out table from the rail side wall…about the same size as Superliner but a little longer that you could place between the seats during the day, otherwise it sat against the wall. Bottom two facing seats slide togther to form a bed and a bed folds down from the rail side of tha partial compartment (two beds total BUT both were wider than Superliner Economy beds). Luggage stored under the seat. They double pretty well as a long distance coach because the wall to the aisle is missing and when the curtains are not hung, allow for easy of conversation and ticket taking during the day.
BTW, Schlimm…Ex-Milwaukee Road Diner just came on the market on the Ozark Mountain Rail website. Part of the interior is as it was during the Milwaukee’s time…go take a look. Sooner or later someone will put the Touralux car on the market…it
I imagine the experience was not much different than a regular section sleeper, which I experienced many times. And would be happy again to do so, even in an upper berth.
The New Haven and Boston and Maine bought a few postwar Pullman Standard lightweight sleepers that had a few sections in them. They ran on the Owl, State of Maine, and possibly Montrealer-Washingtonian, not sure about the last.
I saw the site. So many cars!!
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schlimm
Did you (or anyone else on here such as Deggesty) ever get a chance to ride a Touralux? A description of the experience would be informative.
No my experience with the Milwaukee was Intercity trains from Chicago to Milwaukee before Amtrak took over. I remember the God awful interior paint (pastel rose, pastel blue, turquoise and birch paneling…with light blue seats) but thats about it. Oh yeah the floors were largely the paste by paste tile by that time, not carpeted and some of the tiles were comming loose.
Seen the the interior of the Touralux car in real life as it existed in Milwaukee Road times (there is still one of them out there floating around…no idea who owns it but I peaked on the inside).
For those that are too young, they are basically a Superliner Economy Bedroom but with two abrest facing seats (like a regular coach) with the wall to the hallway missing and replaced by a curtain. There is a wall behind each seat back that extends to the car ceiling. They had a slide out table from the rail side wall…about the same size as Superliner but a little longer that you could place between the seats during the day, otherwise it sat against the wall. Bottom two facing seats slide togther to form a bed and a bed folds down from the rail side of tha partial compartment (two beds total BUT both were wider than Superliner Economy beds). Luggage stored under the seat. They double pretty well as a long distance coach because the wall to the aisle is missing and when the curtains are not hung, allow for easy of conversation and ticket taking during the day.
BTW, Schlimm…Ex-Milwaukee Road Diner just came on the market on the Ozark Mo
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Mt. Chittendon, 14 section. part of the 15-car Mount series cars
There also were the 6 Falls series cars, 8 sections and 32 coach seats
Had you taken the time to read my post carefully, you might have noted the context. I was responding to another post re: having the railways subsidize long dista
If it is ridiculous, why don’t you put up some data to show that the postion is ridiculous. Instead, what you have a tendency to do is demonize someone with whom you disagee without any supporting evidence.
Ah I knew I would find it on the internet somewhere. No idea where this surviving Touralux car is or the name of it but…
Picture of interior of a Milwaukee Road Touralux car. Top bed folded down on rear compartment but remains up on compartment closest to the Camera. Note the beds would be wider than a Superliner and the Curtains are not hanging seperating the aisle from the compartment. I noticed in Milwaukee Road publicity shoots the curtains are only hanging at night and taken down during the day or some how secured during the day.
Sam: Follow the money. Consider the town (or county) of Podunk. The railroad passes through, two main tracks and a large bridge over the Wet River within town limits. Lots of value there, real estate and track, so the railroad gets saddled with a property tax bill in the thousands of dollars. For this it gets essentially nothing. It doesn’t use the water and sewer services, street lights, library, parks, sports arena, etc… The money goes to the town, to be used for general operations, none of which benefit the railroad. This is not a user fee, since the railroad is not getting any use from it. In fact the town often uses the railroad’s property tax to help fund local road maintenance.
Now those vehicles in and around town are indeed paying various user fees, mostly in the form of fuel taxes. These go to more senior levels of government and usually get used somewhere else. Unlike property tax those fees directly benefit the users (provided we ignore the fact that they may not be actually going to maintain any of the roads they use daily). They are not available to help fund the town’s o
The curtains, as well as the bedding (including the mattress for the lower berth) were stored in the upper berth during the day. I expect that the mattresses were real mattresses, and not the thin pads that Amtrak lays over the seats and seat backs in the lower berths or the thick pads that Amtrak uses for upper berths.
Oh, please do not call a section a “compartment.” A compartment is a private room that is a little larger than a bedroom. They are still found on VIA’s Canadian, but you cannot ask for one, for they, as well as the bedrooms, are sold as “Cabins for two.” If you ask for a bedroom or for a cabin for two, and are told that you will be in Room F, you will have a compartment and you will have about a foot and a half more room from front to rear than you have in a bedroom. I still ask for a room by the old designation, and, so far, the person taking my request knows what I am asking for.
The sleeper debate needs a look at a very long range outlook. ( 20 - 30 years ).
We need to look at what has happened in Europe. The higher speed day trips have displaced the shorter sleeper night time routes to a certain amount. Would daytime trips somewhat faster displace night time sleeper passengers?
A perfect example is the ATL - NEC Crescent. ATL - WASH ( presently ~ 634 miles) is ~ 13:45 of time. If the route could be reduced to 10 hours would give an average speed of ~63.4 MPH. With track upgrades that should be possible. Plans to upgrade some route sections to 90-110 MPH will help. ( first section is the planned CLT - Greensboro upgrade ).
So how many passengers that need to take the Crescent sleepers when the upgrades are completed would take a day trip on the route? Just look at the Palmetto ridership that is ~ 11:00 for a slightly lower distance. That is a day trip that carries a decent load. BC is many times full which could apply to a day ATL - NEC
Most other LD sleeper route patronage is longer and would not meet this example.
The United States is not Europe and we will have a lot more rural areas to cover for much longer into the future. Europes rural areas are rapidly dwindling. Pretty sure United States will have a need for intermediate or overnight service, long after it gets HSR widely implemented (if we ever reach that point).
Outside the short distance corridors and back to the intermediate corridors where HSR will probably never happen yet I still think we want an overnight rail option. I could see these coach / sleeper hybrids being used on new overnight trains say for example…
Dallas, TX -Denver, CO using FW&D and C&S (seasonal service for ski season)
Dallas, TX - Kansas City, KS
Dallas, TX - New Orleans, LA
Dallas, TX - Monterrey, MX
Chicago, IL - Denver, CO (daily service)
Salt Lake City, UT - Portland, OR
As you are the only one on here asserting equivalency, I’d say the monkey is on your back. Why don’t you put up some data to show how your position is NOT ridiculous?
If LD overnights will remain with us, it seems reasonable to offer a wider variety of accomodations that would increase car capacity and thus increase revenue and reduce the loss. Another advantage of the Slumbercoach/Touralux/couchette types of sleepers would be to make some sleepers affordable for the younger crowd, who currently are not patrons. They would not be popular with older folks and the obese, but they could still use bedrooms, etc.
I mentioned (apparently way too cryptically!) that the surviving car is ‘Mount Rushmore’, at the Milwaukee Road Heritage Center in Montevideo, MN. I guess you’ve answered the question about how much of the original interior is still in that car. Their official Web site is here:
http://www.montevideomrhc.org/photo.php
Sometimes there is complaining on RyPN on how difficult it is to repair rotting window sash or roof leaks in a museum’s car. Scroll down until you see Skytops for a somewhat more challenging project… !
All of these routes (except Chicago-Denver) have not seen passenger service for years and Salt Lake-Portland & Kansas City-Fort Worth are the only other routes that ever had Amtrak service for any length of time. Overnight service has not been a realistic travel option for a long time so starting from scratch on routes with a fair amount of air service competition is doomed to failure. Consider the history of the “Spirit of California” to see the result.
I do an annual ski trip out west (usually Colorado), although I live in Michigan and not Dallas. I had thought of a possible Fri/Sunday round trip from Dallas to Edwards CO, (Vail) on the Tennesee Pass line (now out of service). It could have left Dallas about supper time Fri, and arrived at the Vail/Beaver Creek area Sat AM. Short shuttle to ski Sat & Sun, then Leave Sun. before dinner and arrive Dallas Mon AM. The travel time lengths are consistant with C&S and D&RGW times. Vail is popular with Texans.
The problem with Denver, is that it is 2 hours to the nearest destination ski area, and a lot slower on weekends. At least Amtrak to Winter Park (ATK uses the Frazer station) is close to a ski area. Glenwood Springs is about an hour to Aspen.
I had thought about taken ATK to ski Colorado, but during my working years the airlines were a faster option. I figured that now that I am retired, I could get the senior rate, but then I found out that there i
Quoting Midland Mike: “I do an annual ski trip out west (usually Colorado), although I live in Michigan and not Dallas. I had thought of a possible Fri/Sunday round trip from Dallas to Edwards CO, (Vail) on the Tennesee Pass line (now out of service). It could have left Dallas about supper time Fri, and arrived at the Vail/Beaver Creek area Sat AM. Short shuttle to ski Sat & Sun, then Leave Sun. before dinner and arrive Dallas Mon AM. The travel time lengths are consistant with C&S and D&RGW times. Vail is popular with Texans.”
Looking at the passenger schedules that I have from Dallas to Minturn (the closest stop to Vail), I find that the above timing is really optismic. The latest schedule I have for the FW&D/C&S (1/12/67) shows the Texas Zephyr leaving Dallas at 1:15 in the afternoon and arriving in Pueblo at 4:12 in the morning. The latest schedule I have that shows the Royal Gorge running west of Salida (5/1/67) has it leaving Pueblo at 12:15 in the afternoon, and arriving in Minturn–the other side of Tennessee Pass–at 6:25 in the evening; Salida, which is east of the Pass, is 85 miles east of Minturn (and not readily accessible to Vail), was reached at 3:15 in the afternoon.
I doubt that the improvements necessary to have overnight service between Dallas and the Vail area would be made, considering that it has been more than 55 years since there has been any passenger service between the to areas.