Southern Illinois, Newton, CSX, et al

Trains Magazine General Discussion
1

I just returned from a trip to Southern Illinois…actually, I went to Muscatine, Iowa, then down to Southern Illinois.

A few points and questions for you.

The former Rock thru Muscatine seems to have a reduced level of traffic since the ICE takeover. Is that reality or just my perception?

I drove down to Olney, Il and spent the night last night. Gabe had indicated in an earlier post about CIPS power plant at Newton. He asked about a wye leading from the CIPS to the east. I completely misunderstood his point. There has always been a wye from the line to the original IC line…now there is a NEW LINE (buildout) from the power plant to Newton, parallelling the IC line into Newton. It appears obvious to me that the Indiana RR is bringing in Southern Indiana coal to CIPS or there is a circular route of western coal.

The attendant at the local Casey’s couldnt shed any light on the subject, so I will ask … where is the coal coming from? Is it from both Southern Indiana and PR?

Second point. I talked to a signal crew at Olney on the CSX. They indicated there is a massive tie installation program on the ex B&O St. Louis line, which is good news. The tracks did not look too good and the maintainer said the speed is down to 30mph. Also, coal trains are running now on the line. Any idea of the number of trains daily on the line?

He also said the signal code is still run thru the lineside wires, but that is coming down soon. There are still CPL signals in place, but east at Bridgeport, the CPLs are gone. Track conditions in Bridgeport … also lousy.

Ditto at Vincennes, the crossing seemed really in poor shape. Weeds were growing on the ex CEI line…not just a couple of weeds, but it looked like my yard.

Has the CSX allowed their mainlines to fall that far in disarray?

ed

2

Ed,

3

Oh yeah,

How much train watching did you get to do in Iowa? Iowa is probably my number 1 place to go trainspotting that I have yet to hit. I would love to trace the IC/CN line to council bluff and then just zig-zag my way across the State on the way back. Ironically, the Overland Route, is probably the least interesting Route there. IAIS, ICE, UP’s Spine line, NS (yes, NS), and the 10s of short lines are the primary attraction for me.

Gabe

4

Ah, the routing of my 2 day world tour…

Simple, business called in Muscatine, Arthur, Il, Bridgeport, Il, and Carmi, Il. Connect the dots, throw in my hometown of Olney and there you have it.

The old IC Evansville line is completely grown over. As a kid and young adult we would walk down the tracks for hunting or just for a walk. Dont think it could be done now. Sad.

I was really amazed by the condition of the CSX lines. Cant emphasize that enough. I know the St. Louis line had been on the ropes, but the Chicago - Evansville line had a healthy growth of weeds.

I wonder what coal traffic is moving on the B&O.

ed

5

Gabe,
The line through Muscatine is the old Rock Islands route to Kansas City. When the Rock went belly up in 1980 the Milwakee, which had trackage rights from the Quad Cities to Muscatine, bought the line from the Rocks estate. Milwakee ran it from the Quad Cities to Washington IA and abandond there own line between Muscatine and Washington. The Milwakee used to peel off the Rock at a place called Culver Tower in Muscatine, and a small part of the Milwakee is still there to serve a few warehouses, and you can still kinda make out where the tower was. Long live the Rock.
Scott

6

The coal trains you see going to Newton (Lis) is Powder River coal. The trains come from UP to either CSX or CP and down to INDR. The reason for this line being built was the power company did not feel they were being treated fairly and they wanted compitition. Also the INRD either does not have trackage rights or the charge was to high. The rr I worked for at the time leased an engine to the contractor so I would get to go and repair it when it broke and ran it for them a few times.
Dave

7

In my opinion, one of the best articles ever written in Trains magazine was in the 1985 issue (i think it was March) on the state of Iowa. The article was on Culver Tower in Muscatine.

It was a narative about being an operator at Culver and the challenges involved. The Rock moved quite a bit of tonnage out of Muscatine and getting the locals moved around and the hot trains thru town was a daily challenge.

One passage that I still recall was how the operator would describe the peace and tranquility that would occur once the rush was over and how he would sit back and listen to the dispatcher communicate with other operators all over the Rock system.

I would suggest to those that have not read the article to find it and read it.

Years after the article was published I found myself going to Muscatine on a regular basis. I also located the tower remains, as Scott has, and would stand there and imagine the drama that unfolded on a daily basis.

If my imagination was particularly sharp, I could hear the ding of a circuit bell anouncing the impending arrival of yet another Rock or Milwaukee train a few miles away and the rustling of the operator as he lined the route for another movement.

Then reality would set in and I would check my watch and hustle off for my next appointment.

Long live the Rock.

ed

8

I think the coal trains are what saved the B&O line, which fell out of favor when CSX got the Pennsy line to STL. That is Powder River coal with a crazy routing; that that…“rumor” has it might getting interesting because CP is shopping the Latta Sub around with INRD a potential suitor.
The Effingham,IL area is pretty neat down there, variety everywhere.

I got to get to Iowa though;

9

INDR would be a logical choice for the Latta sub.

How would it impact them to get to Chicago? Or, is CP just shopping the extreme southern part of the line? They could also take a look at the Monon routing to get to Chicago.

That company has sure carved out a nice niche in Southern Indiana.

Is the CN hauling any coal to Newton?

Regarding Iowa, the line between Davenport and Muscatine along the Mississippi River is really scenic. There are some pretty big quarry type industries with old old exotic house switchers. I didnt have time Monday to stop and examine, but that line is worth exploring.

ed

10

It would be ironic if the INRD bought the CP Latta sub, considering CP was one of the initial suitors for the route that is now the INRD. I, also, would like to know what the sale would include–all the way to Chicago over CP’s CSX’s trackage rights or just where existing track is in place, which is essentially Mitchel (just south of Bedford) to Terre Haute. That would be bad if it were just the trackage rights, as I think some of the track would be pulled up and the coal mines on the line is INRD’s true interest. Then again, it would be awesome to think of the INRD as a true regional rather than a short line and have rights to Louisville and Chicago. I still think Effingham Illinois is the most important purchase they could make.

So the ICE now runs the rock line that we were talking about above? That is the source of my confusion.

Gabe

11

No coal off the CN and actually when UP was detouring because of the derailment @Galt, the coal trains went to St. Louis across CSX ex Pennsy to Terre Haute down to CP to INRD. I thought that was weird when they could just send them across and down the IC. I only caught a grain extra on the line and a interchange run to Newton at about 12:00 on a friday night.
regarding the Latta, I’d like to see this too. It would be fitting for them, but I assume money would be an issue. Another name is the Indiana Southern which I think is a Railamerica line. I believe its the whole line being shopped.
Another thing to keep in mind is CSX owns a good chunk of the INRD and the PAL(kentucky line)

12

Apparently a rumor no more found this on CPR website
Canadian Pacific Railway exploring opportunities for southern Indiana rail line
May 2, 2005
Minneapolis, MN

Canadian Pacific Railway announced today it is pursuing expressions of interest from third parties for its 92.3-mile track from Fayette to Bedford, Indiana, known as the Latta Subdivision. The company is examining all opportunities to improve rail service in southern Indiana and the Louisville, Kentucky, market for the benefit of CPR and its shippers.
A range of outcomes is possible, including new operating arrangements with other railroads or the sale of the rail line to another operator. Abandonment of the line is not being considered, as sufficient business exists on the rail line to support ongoing operations. A decision on the course of action is expected by the end of the year.
“CPR is initiating a process to identify all opportunities to retain and enhance the economic value of this rail line. CPR has undertaken similar reviews at other points on our network that have resulted in positive outcomes for shippers, employees and other stakeholders in the region,” said Dave Craig, general manager business development for CPR.
The Latta Subdivision is an attractive and viable operation due to its connections and interchanges with four shortline railroads and two Class I railroads, the Norfolk Southern and CSX. The four shortlines are the Indiana Rail Road Co., Indiana Southern Railroad Inc., Louisville & Indiana Railroad Co. and Paducah & Louisville Railway Inc.
Canadian Pacific Railway has about 90 employees in southern Indiana, with most working out of terminals at Jasonville and Terre Haute.
To reach CPR’s southern Indiana line from Chicago and Louisville, Kentucky, its trains travel over the CSX. Traffic on the CPR line consists primarily of coal, coke and potash.

13

CSX is currently having a small fire sale to streamline its opperations and generate some much needed cash. I would be surprised to see CSX ownership in the future.

Gabe

14

From a flyer given out (Info off the Illiana Yahoo group)
Attending (in part): Scott MacDonald, Larry Kissel & Steve Moerke, Field Ops;
Dave Craig, Strategy & New Market Development; Laura Baenan, Communication &
Public Affairs & Dale Donahue, Administration.

2004 Traffic Mix

77% Coal, 7% Potash, 4% Energy & Chemicals, 12% Other

Louisville Share of Latta Traffic

91% Louisville, 9% other Latta

Why Latta?

Current operations has positive operating income, but:

-Costly operation from Chicago to Spring Hill

-CSX plan to exit Hoosier Sub

-Increase cost of operation

-NS Yard congestion limits ability to grow business

-Coal shipments expected to decline

Chicago-Spring Hill

-Currently operates over trackage rights

-Current operation

-Train Crew intensive

-Priority issues with CSX

-Exploring haulage with CSX

CSX to exit Hoosier

  1. Hoosier Option-Current operation

-CSX now expects to operate trains for up to 3 years

-Costs per car would increase ($100 per car, up from $25)

-NS yard service in Louisville restricts the competitiveness of this route

  1. CSX/LIRC (Louisville & Indiana) Options

-More competitive route to access Jeffersonville opportunities

-Potential markets for steel, forest prodcuts, plastics

-Access to LIRC transload in Jeffersonville

-LIRC have quoted CPR haulage over Seymour-Jeffersonville

(Map drawn shows existing route Terre Haute-Louisville in addition to new routes
Terre Haute-Mitchell-Seymour-Louisville & Terre Haute-Elnora-Oakland
City-Louisville)

Coal Shipments in decline

Black Beauty Farmersburg mine

15

i dont see how its going to get from terre haute-elnora- oakland city - louisville. what trackage do the think they ae going to use from oakland city louisville.

16

Norfolk Southern, of course. :wink:

17

I lived in O’Fallon along the ex-B&O and fanned it for about a year. The only thing that was regularly scheduled on the line was primarily UP run though trains:

Q686, Q687, Q204 (CSX orig, I think), and V249 (the coal drag).

There was one or two of each of the Q trains, and it seemed like the V249 was a three-day turn around (i.e. you’d see it go east, and then come back west 3 days later).

Here’s a history of my time there:

http://www.railpictures.net/showphotos.php?offset=15&where=search|-2|-2|-2||-2|B%26O|15|1||||||||-2|-2||-2|-2|||15|-2|2544|||||

18

xG:

Thanks for the info on Latta. How do you access the Yahoo discussion group? Also, what is the frequency of trains on the line south of Terre Haute? Is there a daily train to Louisivlle?

ed

19

It is impossible to use NS tracks at the oakland city IN. and the NS is not giving trackage rights on this line .

20

Impossible? How is that? I seriously doubt CP Rail would go to the trouble of printing up those handouts and say they are considering that routing if it was impossible. Its not like I just sat here and was doing some armchair speculation of how I might fantasize about them using that route. Its official negotiations with NS. Seems like NS would have mentioned the impossibility in the meetings?

Apparently NS is talking about giving trackage rights or it would not have been presented like it was.

Are you saying CP just made all this up as some kind of conspiracy?