Hello fellow model railroading fans. Not to sound like a total idiot, but what years did Southern Pacific use 4-8-2 Lt. Mountains ?.
Thanks in advance.
Tracklayer
hello tracklayer… I googled “Southern Pacific 4-8-2” and got:
http://espee.railfan.net/sp_steam_mountain.html
perhaps that will answer for you.
Happy Model Railroading!
Thanks Heartland Division CB&Q. Yes, it did help. It told me that there were 28 of the locos I’m interested in delivered to SP between 1923 and 1924, and that in 1924 locos number 4300 through 4310 were given 120-C-3 tenders from 2-10-2’s. It also said that these type of locos were intended for passenger service, but were soon replaced by more powerful engines and went on to be used in freight service instead. However, I still don’t know what year they were retired…
Tracklayer
SP withdrew 4300 to 4310 from service between January 1953 (4306) and September 1957 (4304). They were all fitted with Skyline casings (which would suggest they remained in passenger service) between 1940 and 1950. If you want to model one of these without the skyline casing, 4310, which didn’t get it until 1950, would be a good number to use.
These MT-1 locomotives were basically the same as later classes MT-3 to MT-5 and these were used on the heaviest passenger trains until the GS 4-8-4 classes were introduced.
Skyline casing equipped locomotives were painted red and orange (on the cab and tender) and worked the Daylight trains over Tehachapi.
Let me know if you have further questions.
M636C
Thank you M636C!.. I really appreciate the info.
I recently bought a Spectrum model number 4308, which until I worked my magic on it was a total lemon that I bought off of eBay, but then that’s another story. Anyway, I wanted to know all of this so I’d know how to dress out my layout. I’ve also got a tender off of a Bachmann 4-8-4 Northern, as well as SP decals that I could use on it if I decide to go that way and make it into number 4310 like you suggested. However, I think at this point I’m going to stick to the mid 1920s until I get the bugs completely worked out of it.
Thanks again.
Tracklayer
My sources (Diebert/Strapac’s Southern Pacific Steam Locomotive Compendium and Robert Church’s The 4300 4-8-2’s) show the following.
#4308 was in the Mt-1 class, the first order of SP Mountains. It’s built date was October 1923 and put into service on December 27, 1923. It was vacated on July 27, 1955. Skyline casings were installed on June 30, 1941. It came orginially came with a 4-axle cylindrical tender of the 120-C-2 tender, but in March and April of 1924 its tender was replaced with the 6-axle cylindrical tender of the 120-C-3 class (of like capacity) that came with a batch of F-5s (2-10-2s). They were all oil fired. #4310 (also an Mt-1) was built March 1924, started service on May 6, 1924 and had skyline casings installed May 19, 1950. It was vacated May 21, 1954 and came originally equipped with a 120-C-3 tender.
The locomotives were designed for general purpose operations. Later 4-8-4s replaced the Mts on premier passenger trains, but the Mts continued to haul passenger trains in addition to freight trains. The Mts were more “general service” than the GS class (General Service) 4-8-4s. The Mts also hauled commute trains in the San Francisco Bay Area because they had both good acceleration and adhesion, necessary for such a demanding role.
I’ve never seen a photograph of a Daylight-painted Mt. I feel deprived.
The Mt-2s differed from SP’s other Mts as they were acquired from the El Paso & Southwestern when SP took control of that line. Mt-2s had rectangular tenders. The SP converted them from coal to oil fuel. The Mt-2s were heavier and more powerful than the other Mt classes.
I hate to burst your bubble, but your SP-labeled Bachmann model is based on an USRA design, not an SP design. Still, rumor has it that Athearn is planning to produce models of the SP engine
[i] I hate to burst your bubble, but your SP-labeled Bachmann model is based on an USRA design, not an SP design. Still, rumor has it that Athearn is planning to produce models of the SP engines, with and without casings, etc.
Mark Pierce [/i]
Supposedly the Athearn MT-4’s will be arriving around the end of the year. I’m looking forward to that one even more than the PCM GS-4.
Andre
Andre is correct - the Light Mountain design is not prototypically correct for SP - and neither is the coal tender. The only Daylight colours some of them received were a Daylight-painted oil tender, and a few dabs of orange on the sides of the loco cab.
However, I too have just re-decalled my own Light 4-8-2 to SP 4310 (for the same reason as above - it was indeed the last to receive the skyline casing in 1950), and I’ve mated it to a replacement Bachmann oil tender (as also attached to the Bachmann SP Heavy Mountain… which is itself, incidentally, not a prototypical SP engine). It looks far more realistic. I also plan to install a Loksound decoder into it, and run it in tandem with my sound-equipped SP Heavy 4-8-2 at the head of my '50s Coast Line “Overnight” rake of black boxcars. Complete fidelity can take a back seat on this one. That’ll do for me, thank you.
Brian
Actually, it was Mark Pierce who pointed out that the Bachmann USRA light is incorrect for the SP.
BTW, I do agree that the Bachmann so-called “Hicken” tender looks very good behind the USRA light. Personally, I think it looks better behind the light 4-8-2 than behind the heavy.
Andre
[quote user=“markpierce”]
My sources (Diebert/Strapac’s Southern Pacific Steam Locomotive Compendium and Robert Church’s The 4300 4-8-2’s) show the following.
#4308 was in the Mt-1 class, the first order of SP Mountains. It’s built date was October 1923 and put into service on December 27, 1923. It was vacated on July 27, 1955. Skyline casings were installed on June 30, 1941. It came orginially came with a 4-axle cylindrical tender of the 120-C-2 tender, but in March and April of 1924 its tender was replaced with the 6-axle cylindrical tender of the 120-C-3 class (of like capacity) that came with a batch of F-5s (2-10-2s). They were all oil fired. #4310 (also an Mt-1) was built March 1924, started service on May 6, 1924 and had skyline casings installed May 19, 1950. It was vacated May 21, 1954 and came originally equipped with a 120-C-3 tender.
The locomotives were designed for general purpose operations. Later 4-8-4s replaced the Mts on premier passenger trains, but the Mts continued to haul passenger trains in addition to freight trains. The Mts were more “general service” than the GS class (General Service) 4-8-4s. The Mts also hauled commute trains in the San Francisco Bay Area because they had both good acceleration and adhesion, necessary for such a demanding role.
I’ve never seen a photograph of a Daylight-painted Mt. I feel deprived.
The Mt-2s differed from SP’s other Mts as they were acquired from the El Paso & Southwestern when SP took control of that line. Mt-2s had rectangular tenders. The SP converted them from coal to oil fuel. The Mt-2s were heavier and more powerful than the other Mt classes.
I hate to burst your bubble, but your SP-labeled Bachmann model is based on an USRA design, not an SP design. Still, rumor has it that Athearn is planning to produ
Bowser makes a good model of the 16000 gal tender that the Mts were fitted w/. There were 5 Mt4s w/ Daylight paint on the tenders and cab sides. No 4350, 52, 53, 61 and 4363. Somebody makes a plastic 16000 gal Vanderbilt tender. I remember seeing it in the Walthers catalog coupled w/ an 0-6-0! Kind of like the other week when I looked out my window and saw my Siamese cat very seriuosly stalking a totally perplexed whitetail buck.
Whaaaaaaaaaaat!? Where did you hear this? [:O]
Boy, now I’M confused! The SP ever having a LIGHT Mountain? All the 4-8-2’s I remember from my ‘kid-hood’ were pretty hefty devils. The Bachmann USRA in SP livery is not a ‘light’, but a ‘heavy’ Mountain (and the SP never had USRA clones to begin with, since most–but not all–of their MT’s were built in the Sacramento Shops in the '20’s and '30’s, to a specific non-USRA design). Now I’m hoping that someone will correct me if I’m totally Out Of It, according to the MT’s, but those were BIG 4-8-2’s.
I acquired a Bachmann “Heavy” 4-8-2 in SP a couple of years ago, with the correct SP tender, but the loco had to be re-done with the correct SP headlight, stack, sand and steam domes to even BEGIN to look like an MT. My choice was to turn it into a ‘sort-of’ MT-2 (and yes, some of the MT-2’s had the cylindrical tender, since SP was notorious for changing out tenders on their steamers), only without the Skyline Casing (my proof: a photo of an MT-2 in Arizona in Lucius Beebe’s book THE CENTRAL PACIFIC AND THE SOUTHERN PACIFIC). It looks okay, and kind of neat with the boiler-mounted Elesco FWH, but it’s still a LONG way from an MT-2 (though it’s slowly getting there).
Frankly, unless I’m terribly mistaken, the photos I’ve seen of the SP MT-1 looks like the 3-4-and 5 series, and they were never Light Mountains.
And remember, SP changed tenders on their locos almost at whim, unless it was an AC or a GS series. Almost everything else was fair game.
Tom
Google “Athearn MT-4 or MT4”
http://www.noch.com/en/neuheiten/athearn/07div_neuheiten_en.php
Scroll down a bit. Also found same arrival date on several other sites.
Andre
Hi Tom. I just checked the box and right or wrong it does in fact say USRA Lt. Mountain…
Tracklayer
Tracklayer:
I’ll be danged, LOL! And I don’t doubt you for a moment, either.
“Daylight Reflections” by Nils Huxtable has four photos on pages 14 and 15, all taken at Bakersfield, but not dated. Locomotives 4352 and 4361 are illustrated.
They lack the skirting on the 4-8-4s and 4-6-2s and the cylindrical tenders look a little strange in red and orange, but they look better on the Daylight train than just a black locomotive.
M636C
[quote user=“twhite”]
Tracklayer:
I’ll be danged, LOL! And I don’t doubt you for a
Intersting. Just two weeks ago I purchased one of these from my LHS.
Label says:
HO USRA Heavy Mountain 4-8-2 Steam Loco (Sound)
Southern Pacific #4361
Item No. 84204
It came with the cylindrical 6 wheel tender and documentation says MT-4. It has a Tsunami - my first and WOW [tup]. It does not have the daylight paint.
I did a google search on this Backmann item number and one website had the following description:
SPECTRUM® HO SCALE USRA HEAVY MOUNTAIN 4-8-2 STEAM LOCOMOTIVE W/LONG TENDER DCC SOUND ON BOARD SOUTHERN PACIFIC® No.4361 w/HICKEN TENDER
I love it.
Regards,