From a looks perspective I prefer the old spartan cab over the modern cab…is there any hard data to support the safety/efficiency of one cab over another? Likewise, Southern and Norfolk & Western opted for the more expensive high short hood back when railroads in general weren’t doing so well and when I would assume every added expense needed to be justified. I wonder if the folks who worked for these roads appreciated the high hood or if it was cursed.
For a crewmember’s standpoint, safety cabs win hands down.
Wide cabs are more spacious; better insulated, and climate controlled; usually have much nicer seats; and reasonably stand up toilets. The “air lock” nose doors especially help. They are also more crashworthy, due to the extra reinforcement in the nose - as required by the new FRA crashworthness requirements.
Nick
I heard the desktop controls of the safety cab are not very popular – the control stand was liked because you could stick your feet out front on top of the heater.
On one hand you could say that locomotive engineers are not payed to stretch their feet out. On the other hand, if you are spending a 12 hour stretch in a locomotive cab, the ability to find a comfortable seating position in important that your back doesn’t cramp up - the ability to prop a foot on on a foot rest is part of the “Industrial Care for the Back” manual on ergonomics for workers who have to go long hours in a sitting position.
Did the manufacturers return to a control stand layout or are they still with the desktop controls?
Most newer units are delivered with the AAR control stand while some still come with the desktop - although their numbers are in decline - in favor of the good ol’ control stand.
At the time that N&W and SOU were buying high short hoods, they were not the more expensive option - the cut-down ‘nose’ was. Also, the N&W operated their diesels ‘steam fashion’ (long hood forward) on the theory that having the distance, and the prime mover, between the cab crew and the problem at the front coupler was a safety feature.
When the low ‘nose’ became the cheaper option, N&W bought them.
Chuck
Most of the ES44’s and new SD70 series have the control stands…
Interesting to note, CN gave up on the desktop controls after their first order of Dash 9’s (#2500 - 2522). All of CN’s later Dash 9’s and their SD70/SD75I series locomotives had the control stands in place of the desktop controls.
i lean VERY far towards spartan cabs. i hate the look of the safety cab, especially since almost all of them have noselights. and i HATE noselights.
maybe i like spartan cabs more since i grew up around them. CNW really made that cab look amazing, almost like it was smirking at you.
my sig image explains why i prefer spartan cabs
The only Safety Cab I liked was Santa Fe’s GP60M cab. It just has nice proportions. And I like the teardrop windows on it and on the F/FP45s. I don’t like the tapered noses on the regular EMD Safety Cab and I can’t stand the GE cab. The modern EMD cab is growing on me.
Nick has this one right!
You railbirds sitting up there on the wire can like anything you want, but, until you actually have to work on the equipment for 12 hrs a day, you’ll never have a clue.
As for the “Desktops”, I’ll let the words of Van Morrison explain them…
“Well, I fought it so long child…Makes my shoulders so sore.”
I don’t guess you’ve seen many NS units, huh?
I absolutely love units with nose lights!!! With nose lights you don’t have the glare off of the top of the short hood and there is less glare from fog and snow. Yes, noselights are much less a strain on the eyes!
Secondary use of noselights is for train crew members. You can sure warm up your hands in a cold pair of gloves.
i said ALMOST all of them
i love NS widecabs. in fact, among the crash 9s, the NS ones look the best to me. followed by ATSF
if noselights are so much more ideal, why does NS always use cablights? there MUST be a reason. but hey, i wont complain. looks a whole lot better
I have absolutely no idea why the NS motive power dept. does what it does. They sure don’t ask me! Which brings to mind those stupid automatic bells that you can’t turn off.[%-)]
Saftey cabs are ok but if you are switching the old style cab is the best better visability easier to do your work, Jim i haft to disagree with you on nose lights they seem to raise the glare in fog and snow, when foggy around here i turn off ditch lights and keep headlights on, but if i have a engine with nose lights its useless to turn anything off as it wont matter, the other problem with nose lights is when you leave them on and step out it warms the neck ears fast also worse than a flash bulb. and a pair of wire cutters take care of that annoying bell. just dont get caught.
As far as looks go…I like the Spartan cab by far. It just looks more like a locomotive to me. Some of the safety cabs do look nice…manily the EMD ones, for some reason I love the SD70ACe ones. I do think thought that the spartan might have a little better visability. I know when I was on the RR I was in GP60’s and I thought the visability was pretty good. Never road in saftey cab so I can’t do a real compairisen, but the side window looks like its lower so you can see closer infront of you. I dont’ know…if any one has rode in both please let me know. I am curious.
rode in both and the window is not the problem its the front end , its high and you cant see your conductor or brakeman on the head end unless you stick your head out the window, the mirrors are useless as 98% of the time they are covered in diesel smoke and takes to much time and several crew packs to clean up. its just easier to work with a old style cab, now running down the road with no work ill take a wide body.
[#ditto] I second the motion.
For line of road, wide cabs win hands down.
For switching work, the spartan cabs are still the best.
Nick
Canada got into wide cabs the big way starting in the 1970s. They even put wide cabs on GP38s 40s, units that are likely to be assigned switching and local branchline freight duties. I don’t think we’re going to see wide cabs on genset or green goat engines anytime soon.
ugh those hybrid cabs are just ugly as sin. especially with those big windows on railpower’s horrid machines. it makes them look like something out of a childrens’ book
What about your signature ?
Spartan cab’s hands down. I’d rather somthing look nice than be safe because theres nothing worse than being safe and driving a turd, Well I guess that or being stuck in OSHA Wisconsin… [:P]
I hate working nights [|)]
The only reason I would think an engineer would prefer a spartan cab is visibility. From what I’ve seen, a trainman riding on the nose in front of the engineer’s catwalk on a spartan cab can be seen by the engineer. I don’t think that’s possible with wide cabs unless the trainman leans out.
I have ridden in spartan cabs and from what I have heard from mainline trainmen, they love the wide cabs for comfort reasons. It’s less noisy, and warmer in winter, plus cooler in summer. For some reason, they say the ride is better as well- although I have no personal basis for comparison.
I think there’s a lot to be said for having a heavy duty structure in front of you that’s designed to buffer, then divert, crash debris. My understanding is that the wide cab was designed to throw things like automobiles either off to the side, or up and over… which is a little rough on the hit object, but pretty important in saving lives of the crewmen.
I was invited up into the cab of a brand new NS wide cab- it was so new they had spray painted road numbers on the sides and nose. The engineer I talked to said he liked the computerized readouts- there was a flat screen mounted on the stand above the “standard” AAR controls. It might have been a case of someone falling in love with something brand new.
I gave up trying to argue asthetics of locomotives a long time ago… for some reason, the railroads have not consulted with me personally. This might explain the demise of the EMD F unit… which was the original “safety cab”…