I have been asked by a couple of club members to find out about using spray bottles to apply diluted glue to scenery and ballast. They are of the opinion that spraying glue is a good way to apply it. However, they have not had much success with finding spray bottles that will put down a fine mist of diluted glue. Everything that we have tried has put out too powerful a spray of glue that messes with the ballast profile and blows the ground foam etc. around. They also jam up quickly.
So, my first question is - does anyone know of a brand of spray bottle that works properly for spraying glue?
My second question is - should we even be trying to spray glue? I don’t recall seeing a lot of modelers who actually spray glue at all. Alcohol and wet water yes, but glue? I personally think that using pipettes for the glue is a much better way to proceed, but I told the spray method proponents that I would ask their question.
As always, thank you for sharing your knowledge and experience.
The only time I tried filling a spray bottle with PVA/Matte Medium/Mod Podge was during one session where I was making “Super Trees” and I tried the spray bottle for making a mist of glue for the foliage to stick to.
Turns out just dunking the tree armature into a pan of the diluted glue was a better method. That spray bottle continually gunked up and I never tried to spray “ballast cement” again. If one tiny piece of goop lodged in the nozzle the spray pattern turned into a random squirt pattern! No good.
Everyone has their choice methods. I’m one of those nuts you hear about that actually enjoys ballasting. After I lay a very fine but generous mist of wet water down I use a “wash bottle” that looks like this:
Maybe a little more costly, but this is the one I recently bought to supplement my arsenal: https://tinyurl.com/ycmktd7q
It is called a “unitary” bottle as there is no dip tube, it is built into the side of the bottle. Some of the bottles with the dip tube have a vacuum breaker built in and they should be removed for better control of the glue stream.
I saw these used in the lab at GE and one of the sales people gave me a few samples to try out. The nice thing is you have precise control. I have to remind myself to begin the stream of glue either on a tie or rail until I get the proper “flow” going as too strong of a stream will move the ballast. The Idea is to watch the glue get absorbed by capillary action into the ballast rather than apply the glue directly to it. I use Mod Podge Matte. Again, everyone has their “go-to” formula.
I never use tap water for thinning. DISTILLED water is 7
I use the mustard and ketchup bottles that have a twist top on them. The more you turn the top the more that can come out. Probably works the same as Ed’s does.
I use a standard plastic mustard/ketchup bottle with a ratio of 1/3 white glue, 1/3 isopropyl alcohol, and 1/3 water mixed together. With the applicator nozzle cut just a bit larger, I get a good control over how much solution flows out by adjusting the amount of “squeeze”. This allows the solution to evenly spread between the ties while also providing a controlled flow over ballast on roadbed slopes. A bit goes a long way. The use of a spray bottle, I think, would be less accurate and put glue out over too wide of an area getting onto surfaces where it’s not wanted.
I agree with the beauty supply stores. Another option is eyeglass cleaner pump spray bottles. I used one for track ballast and was impressed with its mist type spray.
I’ve never found a spray bottle that will last me more than a few applications of diluted white glue. I even went as far as to buy a dozen extra nozzles for a couple of sprayers.
What I found that works the best for me is Beauty Supply Liquid Application Bottles.
I use this one for applying liquids. I use a 8:1 white glue mix for scenery. A track nail works good to seal the nozzle so the glue doesn’t dry up.
I use the bottle above for flocking material. You can trim the nozzle to distribute various sizes of flocking. I fill the bottles to 50% and squeeze it to spray the flocking material. I wet the area to be sceniced with Elmer’s All Purpose White Glue using the squeeze bottle with the black nozzle then apply the flocking from the white nozzle bottle.
I used to follow the “conventional wisdom” at the time and spray my wet water and glue, but quickly found that both messy and wasteful. Now I use a pipette for wet water, actually just straight isopropyl alcohol, and an Elmer’s bottle for the thinned white glue.
Alcohol is cheap enough to use straight, and I find it dries faster than watering it down.
Woodland Scenics even sold (still sells?) a spray bottle for use with their Scenic Cement and I never had much luck with it, either. I have found that all “pistol grip” type spray bottles just have too much oomph when dealing with loose grains of ballast. They probably are best suited to large surfaces such as the side of a hill where you want to apply ground foam or use a static grass device, or for alcohol/india ink mixes when darkening ballast which is already affixed.
For ballasting I use eye droppers or pipettes, but have had some success with the kind of “pump” spray bottle that hair sprays and some perfumes have. The amount of air pushed out with the product is just that much less.
I’ve never had any success applying diluted glue with a spray bottle. Can’t get a fine mist pattern that wouldn’t disturb the scenery/ballast or it would bead up at the tip and drip onto the ballast causing it to move.
Since my glue solution is 50/50 (elmer’s white glue/water), I simply use the elmer’s glue bottle…mix it, shake it, adjust tip for flow rate/drip…repeat as necessary.
I use a spray bottle to apply isopropyl alcohol prior to the glue. I got a $1 travel spray bottle, which is small enough to use without getting in the way and the mist is fine enough to not disturb the scenery/ballast.
Applying the diluted white glue with a spray bottle not only wastes the product (I know, it’s not that expensive), but it also puts the glue in places you don’t want it: all over the rails and especially into the turnouts.
If the members are having trouble using applicators that allow drops of diluted glue to be applied, then it’s very likely that they’re not pre-wetting the ballast to a sufficient degree. Using such applicators allows much better control over where the glue goes, and also allows easy methods to prevent fouling turnouts with too much glue, or cementing the points in place.
If your ballast is deep or atop rip-rap, sprayed glue will be insufficient to penetrate right to the bottom, resulting in a crust atop loose material…
You’d likely need a hammer to drive a nail into this stuff…
I would never spray glue, unless it was in a spray can and I were doing picture mounting.
Tell 'em to suck it up and be thankful that they don’t have to use shovels to spread the ballast. [swg]
When spraying wet water or alcohol wetting agents, point the sprayer straight up and let the mist fall down on the ballast gently. This also is quite messy. There are times when it is best to spray the wetting agent - such as in the case of fine dirt. Otherwise I avoid spraying.
I usually use alcohol applied with a wide tip needle applicator to wet the ballast and I use the same type of applicator to apply the glue mixture. Soak the heck out of deep ballast/rock piles with glue for best results.
The latest episode of Off the Rails on MRVP was made just in time for you.
I have a fine mist spray bottle but I don;t put glue in it, I use that to mist on the alcohol before adding the glue. The spray is so fine and gently that it doesn;t blow the loose ballast all over the place, as Gerry demonstrates in the video.
For the glue - if I didn;t already have an alternative, that hair dye applicator botle would eb perfect. What I have is a mustard jar. But not any mustard - the more popular brands have a big spout. There is a brand we get around here, might be throughout the US, dunno if it’s sold in Canada, called Plochmann’s. Ther bottles have a very fine tip - one thing is you never get a giat blob of mustard on your hot dog using this stuff, and that makes it great for dripping diluted glue on scenery materials - no giant stream to wash away the materials. It’s easy to drip it on slowly and allow it to soak through the scenery materials instead of forming oversize spots that look like a small meteorite hit. The pictured hair dye applicator should be the same thing, and you don;t have to use up a container of mustard first to get the dispenser. But it’s good mustard [:D]
I use old Elmer’s glue bottles for both alcohol to saturate the ballast or scenery and for the 50/50 glue and water mix that I home mix to use as scenic cement. Just don’t see the need to spray any of this stuff.
Lots of spary skeptics, but it works for me. I use sparying, really misting, for anything that doesn’t need a puny applicator. It’s only wasteful or goes in the wrong places if you’re not being careful.
First, you can find good quality spary/mist bottles at any place that sells janitor supplies, including many big boxes. The sparyer head should adjust to give you the right spray. Keep looking if you can’t find them at first or ask the local janitor, as they are always needing to mix and mist various solutions and will know what and where to get it.
Second, don’t use glue, use matte medium. This is somewhat more expensive but gives good, reliable results. Then cut it half and half with water. This sparys or mists easily.
Third, prep the area to be sparyed with a mist of 91% alcohol. Yep, not the 70% most use, because there’s too much water in it and it doesn’t evap[orate quickly enough for me. You do need to be cautious around things that can be affected by alcohol, so get in close and mist from there instead of hosing down the whole layout. This also works well with the lightweight walnut shell ballast that WS sells, as well as with most foam and other lightweight ground cover materials.
Foruth, tape over the throw bar on turnouts and minimize getting any spray on the points. These are places where the eyedropper method is still good to have in your skill set. Just maneuver around them with the matte mist, then go back and touch them up with the dropper method.
Yes, if you’re not careful you can make an epic mess of things. On the other hand, once you’ve mastered this skill, the amount of scenicking you can do is amazing.
I gave up on attempting to clean spray nozzles used to deliver diluted wood and white glues long ago. At least, cleaning by wiping them dry. The trick is to keep a plastic cup of water handy, set aside so it won’t be knocked over. When you have done spraying for the day/week/year, you remove the top of the assembly, the spritzer, and insert the uptake tube into the clean water in the cup. Spray until the water is clearly…uh…clear. Close the nozzle by screwing it to snug, reinsert the tube into the glue mix, and lay it all aside.
Wiping the nozzle is ineffective and will result in self-torture the next time you go to use the sprayer.
All that aside, I use a screw nozzle squeeze bottle such as mustard bottles. You can get the nozzle close to the ballast so that the dilution doesn’t fall and displace the ballast grains with its momentum.
Tip: place a few, clean, small pebbles into your glue bottles. When you go to use them, shaking to mix will include moving the pebbles, thus improving agitation.
