After reading that Train Miniature cars came with sprung trucks,I took a closer look at a few that I recently bought on Ebay. Sure enough, three have sprung trucks. (cant believe I missed this) I was thinking that they looked kind a neat, until one fell apart in my hand. I had just noticed it was missing a spring when it fell apart. Question, do you think I should replace the sprung trucks with solid plastic ones, like the blue box Athearns used for reliability?
I like sprung trucks, 'cause they look neat. They used to be pretty much standard on everything. Find a replacement spring and that truck will go back together. Walthers or Micromark might have replacement springs.
The sprung trucks stay on the track and roll as well as the solid plastic ones. The solid plastic ones are cheaper to make which explains why they took over.
After Walthers bought the TM line, they pretty quickly (after a year or two) switched to solid plastic trucks. Arch-bar, T-section and Bettendorf. They later added Roller Bearing trucks. Walthers still makes both sprung and solid trucks. You could use Proto (formerly Life-Like) trucks also. I replaced most of the trucks on my Walthers ore cars with Proto trucks.
I have original TM cars that had solid plastic trucks.
!(http://i687.photobucket.com/albums/vv233/GrandFunkRR/Olyville Extras for externals/d7c69ceb.jpg)
Maybe these were later production. Bev-Bel / TM 3packs had plastic trucks too.
Had those stupid, Walthers rust colored, put them together trucks. Replaced most of those. They were issued on, the white and blue colored box kits. The springs would always go flying away. They would need wheel replacements as well. Raided some Athearn cars for the replacements. Later, Walthers had standard plastic trucks.
I have been in this hobby since about 1968, back when sprung trucks were pretty much standard on everything - Athearn, Varney, Model Die Casting, Silver Streak wood kits - they all came with sprung trucks.
I still put sprung trucks on almost all my rolling stock. Why? Superior rolling and tracking. I use mostly Kadee metal sprung trucks, but I replace the wheel sets with those sold by Intermountain.
After much testing this has shown to be the most free rolling combination, more free rolling than any rigid frame truck and wheelset combo I could find.
So, on freight equipment I only use rigid trucks when no suitable/correct sprung truck is available.
Also, many of those older sprung trucks, Athearn, Train Minature, Walthers, etc, can be fitted with new wheelsets for improved performance.
Replacement springs are available from Kadee, Walthers and others, but I have seldom ever lost a spring.
The main two advantages of sprung metal trucks is more weight down low and equalization - that flexing that keeps all four wheels on the rail all the time.
Sheldon
I too remember when sprung trucks were the standard for most manufacturers and I like them better than the newer solid ones. Being made entirely of metal they were obviously heavier and therefore better balanced with more weight down below the floor of the car. I still have some of the Central Valley sprung trucks which were or maybe still are one of the best made. Wish they went back to sprung trucks as standard issue for all RTR rolling stock.
-Bob
I’m with Sheldon on this. I have always preferred sprung equalized trucks ever since my second layout which was modular. One of the tracks didn’t line up quite right at the module joint. Sprung trucks rolled over it, but rigid ones always derailed. Now I don’t recommend poor track work and mine has improved since then, but it did convince me of the value of sprung trucks.
Paul
I have quite a few cars with good quality sprung trucks, but the sprung trucks I found with the Walthers/TM cars were generally a pretty poor quality, so I replaced them all with a much better quality truck (and metal wheels).
It’s true, a good quality sprung truck is MUCH more forgiving of errors in trackwork. And believe me, I’ve made my share of errors in trackwork over the years, LOL!
Tom
Tom, both the TM and Walthers sprung trucks benefited from a once-over with your X-Acto to remove flash, especially from the ends of the bolsters and in the opening in the sideframes where the bolster seats. Many of those trucks, though, needed replacements for the out-of-round or non-concentric wheels. [swg]
Sprung trucks work well when car weight is sufficient to overcome the usually-too-stiff-springs. I use them under some of my Athearn 2-bay hoppers - with loose loads, total car weight is about 8 ounces. Under empty cars, they’re just like trucks with rigid sideframes. [(-D]
The one drawback to most sprung trucks is that the two springs per side leave a pretty clear view through the truck, whereas the prototype used 6 or more springs on each side.
If you’re using sprung trucks under a caboose, many real ones used leaf springs. PSC offers some nice ones in phosphor-bronze, but they’re not very “springy”. In fact, compressing them to insert them into the sideframes often leaves them squashed and prone to falling out. I solved that problem by expanding the installed springs from behind using an X-Acto #11 blade - insert and twist a little. To ensure that they stay put, I then re-install the coil springs. They’ll act like unsprung trucks, but look pretty decent.
(click to enlarge the photo, then click on the photo itself to enlarge further. One of the coil springs is visible in the right-hand truck)
Wayne
Wayne,
It has been my experiance that even the lightest cars will cause GOOD sprung trucks to “equalize” - I have never seen any car actually compress the springs. I have a large fleet of Athearn and Bowser 34’ 50 ton hoppers, and I don’t run live loads, so mine are either empties or have molded loads. The metal sprung trucks made a big difference in how well 40-50 of them track in a train.
I will say the benifits of sprung trucks are of greater improtance as train length increases.
As for appearance, which looks better being able to see through or a molded blob - not much difference in my view. I do keep rigid plastic trucks on cars were no suitable prototype sprung truck is available - example Athearn ATSF 50’ reefers.
Again it is the extra weight with a low center of gravity and equalization. I do use some plastic sprung trucks but metal is mt first choice.
Just like todays plastic knuckle couplers, rigid trucks work fine with short to medium length trains - longer trains are more demanding of car tracking qualities.
As for metal wheels, they are part of the weight thing more than anything, but they do seem to run cleaner. Like you, I can do without any excess noise - but it is what it is - reference the other current post on the related topic of metal wheels.
Those of us running long trains have to put perfromance above appearance on a number of points.
Sheldon
Back in the late 1960s and 1970s I bought a lot of Central Valley trucks young and single then .Used them on all of my cars. I had enough so that I had a lot of spares and have used them on some of my newer cars.They add weight, track and roll very well. I use a large syringe that came with an ink cartridge kit to squirt some graphite into the bearings of the trucks.They definitely are worthwhile.
I have also used replacement metal wheelsets and the truck tuner tool to improve the performance over plastic wheel sets… I like the sprung trucks best but replacement metal wheelsets is a very good alternative.
Wayne:
Everything you said about the Walthers/TM sprung trucks is very true. Plus–the springs somehow never seemed to be the same size, for some reason. But even after tuning the trucks and replacing the wheel sets, the cars still seemed to roll like they had the brakes set, LOL!
Your mentioning leaf springs brings to mind two old Silver Streak cabooses (still being used) and the very excellent leaf springs that came with their trucks. I built them in the late 1950’s, early '60’s, and springs still work very well. I think they’re a different material than the PSC phosphor bronze, though. Perhaps some kind of ‘tempered’ brass? Not sure.
Tom
Lots of good feedback, so if I get good qualitity sprung trucks they wont fall apart like the TM’s did? Whats a good product/brand for a sprg trk noobie?All my rolling stock is based on prototypes built 1920-55. Thanks
The only one which I can think of at the moment is Kadee, and they have several applicable to your era. Lindberg made some nice ones in plastic, and I think that they’re currently available from EB products. Perhaps Sheldon will know of others.
Wayne
I had trucks with springs that I have taken off the layout. I’ve never felt that sprung trucks were any better than solid ones. In fact because the diameter of the spring material must be so light in comparison to the diameter of the real springs, I don’t think they look as realistic as solid. Also, the can easily fall apart, as you have found.
However, I would consider your question to be a personal choice that makes so very little difference, so choose how you want to go with it and have fun.
I use mostly Kadee, anda few from EB/Lindberg. Walthers and Precision Scale also offer a few.
Many older ones, Athearn, Varney, Central Valley can be upgraged with new wheel sets and/or new springs from Kadee.
Sheldon
sheldon:
You’re right on the older Varney, Silver Streak and Athearn sprung trucks–I’ve replaced the wheelsets with either Intermountain or Proto, and they run just dandy. So far haven’t had to replace the springs–amazing for several cars that are running close to 50 years old (Varney and Athearn metal).
Tom
Hi,
May I share my sprung truck experience…
When I started out in HO, all the Athearn BB had the metal sprung trucks. They were sooo cool.
So I accumulated several pairs, and used them on a handful of older Ulrich and Silver Streak cars on the layout. Not too long ago, I replaced the wheelsets with Intermountains…
Then I began to have some mysterious intermittant shorts. Fortunately I soon realized the problem, that being that whenever one metal wheel rubbed on one side of the truck - at the same time as the other wheelset rubbed on the other side of the truck - BAM, a short occurred.
Anyway, rather than mess with them, I pulled them all off and will likely put them on Ebay next winter.
Not every wheel set works in every sideframe assembly. There are sometimes issues of axle length and axle point design.
HOWEVER, at no time on ANY truck, plastic or metal, should the wheels be hitting the sideframes - if they are, there is a problem with the truck that is beyond the fact that it is sprung. I have nearly 1000 pieces of rolling stock with sprung metal trucks - they all work fine.
Sheldon
About a year and a half ago, I took the step of converting all of my freight cars to metal sprung trucks with turned-metal wheelsets (NOT Kadee wheelsets - they collect gunk like they went out and looked for it). I have never looked back. I have Varney, Athearn, Silver Streak, Ulrich, Kadee, and misc. others which I can’t recall. I use Reboxx “semi-scale” wheelsets. They roll very well, and other than a bit of issue with getting them on the rails to begin with (old eyes, shaky hands), they are quite satisfactory. Metal trucks with metal wheels add as much as 0.7 ounces to the weight if the car, and put it down low where it does the most good.
The springs were a bit tricky at first, and a few went into the beyond, but I seemed to pick up on my skills from the old days, and I don’t lose them very often anymore. I did find that replacing the wheels in many trucks can require a deal of care in twisting the sideframes on the bolsters in order to get the old wheels out and the new ones in, without losing the springs. It’s a skill you acquire like all skills, with practice.
And, it’s imperative that you get replacement wheelsets with the right axle length for the trucks you have. All axles are NOT alike, and neither are all sideframes. Too short, you’ll have problems with them falling out or at best misaligning the couplers. Too long and the trucks won’t roll right.
There aren’t many manufacturers any more that produce sprung trucks. The best (aside from the wheels) are Kadee, IMHO. I think there are a couple more but I can’t recall them.