St. Louis Early 60's Passenger Trains

Trains Magazine Passenger
1

Long paragraph below about my layout, then a specific question about passenger service through St. Louis, Mo, circa early 60’s. I’m early enough in my layout construction and rolling stock to consider many options. I’m looking for opinions and favorites of experienced modelers.

For more years than I care to admit, I have been building an HO layont loosely based on St. Louis, MO, circa early ‘60’s (you can estimate my age from that). 2’ deep benchwork and track complete about 2/3 around a 13+ x 24 layout room, with plans for a double deck peninsula up the center. The freelanced layout runs from TBD in central Illinois, through E. St.L. and onto St.L Mo. crossing the Mississippi river (the room doorway), west to Shrewsbury (Frisco) yard, Kirkwood Mo and ending just west of Valley Park, MO. All the trackage west of St. Louis is along the parallel MP / Frisco tracks, but I’, vague about what Prototypes to feature through and east of St. Louis. Some double track and some passing sidings - train length limited to about 7 feet.

Along with the typical local freights, I’ve become increasingly interested in passenger service -both through service and locals. I have room for 2 rural and 2 surburban passenger stations, but unfortunately not for St. Louis Union Station. Maybe on the next layout…

I’d like people to weigh in on what prototype passenger trains they’d run on my layout, including motive power and train length I’d like to work towards 2-3 eastbound and westbound passenger trains of various prototypes, plus a few locals. All input very welcome! Thanks!

2

Well I’ll suggest the Wabash from St. Louis into central Illinois. It did have suburban St. Louis stations at Delmar Blvd. and Granit City, IL.

In the early 60’s there were three trains a day east and three west. Local passenger trains were all but gone by the 60’s.

There were all kinds of passenger equipment on these trains. Mostly modern stainless steel with some domes, BUT, nos. 110 and 111, the “Banner Blue” carried a heavyweight parlor/observation car with an open observation platform in back.

My old Official Guide of the era says the first train east from St. Louis was at 9:15 AM. This was the combined “Blue Bird”/“Wabash Cannon Ball”. The train split at Decatur with the “Blue Bird” going to Chicago and the “Wabash Cannon Ball” going to Detroit.

Equipment on the Bird included a dome parlor lounge car, a dome chair car, chair cars (coaches), a diner/lounge and a “coffee shop club” car. (no wonder they lost money on passenger trains.) All regularly assigned equipment was lightweight stainless steel.

Equipment on the “Cannon Ball” was coaches and a diner/lounge. Again, all regularly assigned equipment was lightweight stainless steel.

Throw in any head end cars you want (light or heavy weight, feel free to add an express reefer) , the Wabash did. Train length varried with the business levels.

The next Wabash east out of St. Louis was at 3:55 PM. It was the “Banner Blue” for Chicago. This train carried the heavyweight parlor/observation car with the open obs platform. It also had a dome chair car, chair cars, and a diner/lounge.

Again, throw in any head end cars you want and train length varried with the business levels.

The final eastbound Wabash of the day gives you some sleeping cars to run. It was the “Detroit Limited” leaving the Gateway City at 6:00 PM.&nb

3

In the early 60’s, PRR still ran 2 trains between St. Louis & New York. Numbers 3 & 4 “The Penn Texas” and numbers 30 & 31 "The Spirit of St. Louis. Both were still full service trains with coaches, diners, lounges & sleepers. The Spirit even had one of PRR’s unique flatend observation cars. I believe that NYC’s Southwestern Limited was also running between St. Louis & New York in the early 60’s.

4

I believe the IC still ran the Night Diamond overnight between St.L and Chicago in the very early 60’s. While not exactly a local it had the look of one. Consist would typically be two Pullman green head end cars, one or two coaches and a single sleeper headed by a single E unit. The coaches and sleeper would be modernized heavy weight cars with 6-wheel trucks painted in the IC’s chocolate brown, orange and yellow paint scheme.

Mark

5

1961 – cross-country on UP-PRR via St. Louis.

UP’s City of Saint Louis arrival from the West on, I believe, the Wabash. Departed East on the PRR - but don’t remember the train name. It went through Dayton, OH if that means anything. Diner was on the rear so it could easily be swapped out overnight to return to St. Louis, so may well have been the Penn-Texas.

I believe the ROCK and MP were operating trains still.

6

I traveled on the PRR’s “St. Louisian” from St. Louis to Altoona in December 1964. So it was still operating. If I recall correctly, PRR ran 3 trains in each direction to St. Louis in the '60’s, although one westbound was an unnamed Pittsburgh to St. Louis local that left Pittsburgh about 8:00 AM, until the later '60’s when I believed they dropped the Penn Texas. (I’m also not sure whether or not it was the Penn Texas or the St. Louisian which did not operate westbound. The “Spirit of St. Louis” definitely operated both ways.) Towards the end, I believe all of the St. Louis trains combined with Chicago bound trains (but not the Broadway Limited or the General) between NYC and Pittsburgh and vice-versa. I remember riding a combined Chicago-St. Louis train about 1966 from Harrisburg to NYC that was the longest passenger train I ever rode-26 cars pulled by 5 F units into Harrisburg and 2 GG1’s eastward.

Related Question: Can anyone tell me when the PRR dropped the Indianapolis Limited and the Cincinnatti Limited?

7

The Cincinnati Limited ran as a separate train only between Cincinnati and Columbus and was combined with the Spirit of St. Louis or Penn Texas east of there (I’m not sure in which direction for which train) from at least 1965 and probably earlier.

8

Paul

Which PRR departure would have been the connection for the City of St. Louis circa 1960-1962? Would have gone through Dayton, Ohio.