Made a quick trip to Oklahoma City and back thru St. Louis and paralleled the BNSF line out of St. Louis to Springfield and Tulsa. I was always a Frisco fan, it seemed like a great little line that really didn’t go anywhere direct, but touched a number of markets. The “X” located in Springfield provided great flexibility.
Surprizingly the line between Springfield and St. Louis seemed to be stick rail where it paralleled I44. Nor did I see signals in place…and no trains. Near Tulsa there was activity. This was covered by a Fred Frailey blog last year. The line from Springfield to Tulsa and west to connect to the Transcon line carries considerable intermodal business.
So, how does the former Frisco line fit into the BNSF plan? Obviously, the KC - Birmingham segment carries considerable coal and intermodal (south of Springfield). What is the traffic level handled into and out of St. Louis on the Frisco lines?
Ed, some portions of this line do have welded rail. But I’ve seen what you’ve seen.
My brother-in-law lives in Steelville, south of this line by a few miles. I understand they’ve finally gotten running water down there, [;)] but before that the big city along the Interstate (or Route 66 in the old days) was Cuba. We’ve dined there, and actually seen a train or two while doing so. One was a doublestack train, so I wouldn’t be writing this line off just yet. Cuba is the junction with a branch that went down through Steelville and beyond. Nothing’s used this line in many years, but abandonment, from what I’ve heard, would have to be accompanied by lots of soil remediation, due to the lead that was mined in these parts.
I’m pretty sure I’ve also seen signals along this line…wouldn’t be at all surprised if it’s CTC.
Two places I’d suggest for you to visit on this stretch, assuming you have some time to spend, would be Pacific and Eureka. This line is roughly parallel with UP’s ex-MoPac St. Louis-to-Kansas City line (the same one that goes through Kirkwood) through here. At Pacific there’s an industry (sand pit) along the UP, with some freight cars close to the road (not the main road, but very scenic); at Eureka there’s a quilt shop. Guess where I spend more time…
The eternal optimist in me would hope that the state of Missouri and BNSF would be very agreeable to allowing passenger service between St. Louis and Springfield along this line. At least one onl
Thanks for the report Carl. Now that I am back home and have a little more time on my hands and can think back about it…
That area of Missouri is absolutely beautiful. I knew it was nice…but wow. Frisco was always a line that intrigued me and I had one opportunity as a teenager to be in Jonesboro, Ar for a week and the Cotton Belt and Frisco ran adjacent to one another near where I was staying (Arkansas State University) and it was really great seeing something other than Illinois Central black or orange geeps.
The Frisco line (BNSF) isn’t adjacent to the I44 very much, so perhaps there are signals (I also thought it was CTC)…but I didn’t see any. Agree with you…a StLouis - Springfield and perhaps Joplin train would be a good one, particularly with the schools at Rolla and Springfield. Then just stretch it to Tulsa and let Oklahoma run it to OKC and my trips to see my son at college would be much more relaxing. BTW, there is talk in OKC about a OKC to Tulsa passenger service. Of course, it appears the State of Oklahoma has plenty of $$$ these days. What an interesting state.
There is an Amtrak from OKC to Ft Worth. Walked by the old Santa Fe depot in OKC.
Greyhound wants intermodal service in OKC…not sure about that, but the area is booming.
It’s a little out of my area, but I’ve been know to get over that way, so take this with a grain of salt.
On the Cuba Sub, the NS Lehigh Valley HU was on a M-STLTUL last week, supposedly it left at 1pm, there’s also a Tulsa-St.Louis manifest. 3 days a week the stacks roll on a Q-STLLAC around 2pm, likewise there’s a Q-CLOSTL maybe 4 times a week? Locals run out of each end too.
I thought the STLTUL was a nocturnal beast through St.Louis, the schedule probably changed. i do know BNSF can run reroutes of the NTW, BRC and GAL to TUL(which are usually via KC) and heard tale that one of the Clearing or Galesburg would run through St.Louis to Tulsa, perhaps instead of the STLTUL? For the completist, there was, maybe still is, an NS local that would run on the BNSF to the Daimler-Chrysler plant in Fenton.
There’s significantly more traffic on the River Sub. The hump at Memphis anchors GM traffic to+from STL, GAL and NTW (Minneapolis’ Northtown Yard). There’s a flood of taconite going south to Birmingham, coal and some oil.
Springfield is , of course, was the major Division Point and Shops for the Frisco, before the mergers. It could be visualized as an “X’” with the line from NW to SE being the Kansas City to Memphis side and the SW to NE being the Tulsa to St.Louis legs.
Did a little internet railfanning and it seems there are about 3 trains each way between St.Louis and Springfield. Not much…
Obviously the Frisco’s value is from the Transcon thru Tulsa to Springfield and down to Memphis. Was disappointed to see the light traffic on the St. Louis line.
The most interesting place to railfan in Springfield is at the Jefferson Avenue Footbridge. It crosses about a dozen tracks between the yard and where the lines split for StL and Memphis, so you see all the trains thru town. The tallest double-stacks pass just a few inches below your feet.
That used to be part of the intermodal service route between Chicago and Dallas. The Frisco ran an intermodal/auto rack train that left St. Louis mid morning with a 7:00 AM trailer availability in DFW the next morning. The ICG had a Slingshot Service train that left Chicago at 11:00 PM (10:00 PM cut off) with Venice, IL (E. St. Louis) availability at 7:00 the next morning.
At the ICG we’d rubber interchange the trailers to the Frisco in St. Louis and they’d make a 2nd morning 7:00 AM availability in DFW from Chicago. That was better than the Santa Fe could do. And it was certainly competitive with motor freight.
At the ICG we didn’t actively market the service because the Frisco had a bad habit of not returning the equipment. So any trailer that went to the Frisco couldn’t go to a customer with a New Orleans load. (We could find northbound loads out of New Orleans. If the Frisco did give the trailers back, they tended to give 'em back empty.) Hey guys, find some northbound balance and we might get interested.
I am actually a conductor in training over this route. We run a STLTUL and TULSTL everyday. Q trains are 4 days a week, extra S trains have been running often as well as empty coal. It’s a very hilly line with mostly jointed rail. It’s ABS TWC between Lindenwood yard (st.louis) and Valley Park, not even 20 miles. After that is CTC. The 816 local runs from St.Louis to Valley Park on Mondays, St.Louis to Rolla on Tuesday and Thurday and from Rolla to St.Louis o Wednesday and Friday.
A couple years back there was an extensive thread here on why St. Louis had not developed into a rail routing ‘gateway’ point of the magnitude of Chicago, Memphis, New Orleans, etc. Perhaps that’s one reason why the traffic volumes are so light on this line. Also, the hills mentioned by Brenden above would be an impediment to the safe and efficient handling of long trains on such a ‘sawtooth’ profile.
I drive from Maryland to Topeka yearly to visit with and race with my son. The worst fuel mileage I get is on the segment from St. Louis to Kansas City - the state of Missouri is riddled with significant river valleys and the ridges they have eroded into floodplains. Note - this includes mountainous mileage on I-68 and I-79.
Grades equal increased operating costs for railroads.