I may be buying a very nice set of the Portland Rose train wich would go very well within my UP steam roster.However,I have a feeling that some details are not true to prototype.First,the set suggests that a Challenger was pulling this train then.But the only pictures I could find featured a diesel consist so I couldn’t verify.Was it the case?And if so,how many cars did this train pull?According to the set,only six cars made this train.I don’t think UP would have used a Challenger for so few cars or did they?
I’d like to find some infos on this train,or better still a picture or two.Although I don’t put too much emphasis on scale on my daily modelling,I’d like to have a train or two that would be somewhat prototypical.Thanks.
hi, this is taken from the January 1955 Official Guide. it is a bit long winded and does not mention the head end equipment (mail, express,baggage etc.)
No 17 Portland Rose daily
club lounge - KC to Portland
standard sleeping cars KC to Portland 6-6-4
Denver - Yakima 10-3 (No 64 beyond Hinkle)
LA to Spokane 6-6-4 No 10 LA to Salt Lake, No 33 Salt Lake to Pocatello No 17 Pocatello to Hinkle No 20 Hinkle to Spokane
reclining seat coaches KC to Portland and KC to Spokane on No 20 north of Hinkle.
Dining car.
a little sketchy as to number of cars but hope this helps. evidently, this train got massaged a bit enroute.
I can’t offer you a lot of information, but some photographs I’ve seen of the PORTLAND ROSE during the steam era show a Challenger pulling it out of Portland, and it seems to be a fairly long train. As I remember, the Challenger was a two-tone gray with ‘elephant ears’ and there was quite a bit of head-end equipment on the train, also. Evidently the locomotive was needed for power over the Blue Mountains in eastern Oregon, once the train was out of the Columbia River Gorge.
You might try contacting the Portland model railroad club (sorry, don’t have an e-mail for them), as I’ve seen a model of the train in photographs on their layout.
But I distinctly remember seeing photos of the train pulled by a 4-6-6-4 during the steam era. And a lot more than just six cars.
You should see Volume 15 Number 3 of the Union Pacific Historical Society magazine, The Streamliner, that had a very detailed article on the history and operation of the Portland Rose. It included several photos and train consists. The back issue is available from the society’s Web site at www.uphs.org, and you don’t have to be a member to buy it.
If so, that is my train, at the Columbia Gorge Model Railroad Club, here in Portland, OR. I wont claim that there was any research done, as far as it being “Prototypically Correct” The Locomotive is a Lionel HO Challenger, and a very SWEET runner at that. The cars are Athearn Blue Box kits with the trucks reamed and Kadee wheelsets. I will also have to check out Andy’s reference source for information, on the “Portland Rose”. The length is probably short at only 12 cars, but that was the limit in our station tracks for Portland Union Station. It is just a general representation, but it is a Popular train that gets a lot of comments during our annual show in November.
Also, from what I have read, the Union Pacific Challengers that were used for Passenger service in The Pacific Northwest(some even ran to Seattle) and out of Los Angeles, in the two tone grey, there were actually two variations. 1946-49 had yellow stripping and lettering, and 1949-52 had silver(aluminum) striping and lettering(My Favorite paint Scheme).
After 1952, they were all reportedly all repainted back to Black, even when used in Passenger service.
Andy,
Thank You for that reference source, after the Honeymoon, I will have to check into that.
Thank you all for the infos.I had no idea of this historical train until I happen to find a Con-Cor N scale set offered on Ebay,it definitely caught my attention and I was willing to try hard to set my hands on it.Unfortunately,the seller pulled the item back with three days left to the auction,stating the item had been lost.I don’t have much hope of seeing another set showing up any time and I can suppose that it’s not available anywhere else either.They were limited then and the few left are certainly part of collections.I know that if I had one,I’d stick to it very hard…
However,I don’t quit easy and am thinking of assembling one.I already have a “loose” Challenger (undec) and I’ll try to find a few cars,hoping that this paint scheme wasn’t specific to this train.Worse case,I’ll have to find the right car type and repaint them but then finding the right paint color and stickers might be just as hard if not impossible.But for the time being,I’ll start by finding the suggested magazine and see what are my options.A good thing,I’m in no hurry.Thanks again.
I’ve had other priorities for a while (home renovations) so haven’t given the subject all my attention but now I’m back to it.This week I’ll order a few mags from UPHS hoping to find all the infos I’d like to set my hands on but in the meanwhile,I’d like to find whatever I can through other sources,most likely you members of this forum.Thank you in advance.
I’ve searched the web under many possible titles and all I’ve achieved is finding a few pics of the diesel version of the Portland Rose,featuring yellow cars and what I believe to be E8 locos.While it is a beautiful train,it’s not the one I’m interested in.What I’ve been looking for is the elder version,more specifically the one with a Challenger up front and two tone gray cars.Unfortunately,the only picture I’ve seen is one of a beautiful model submitted by a forum member (thanks by the way) on wich the loco is clearly identifiable.
I’ve found that this train was extensively modified during its travel,with cars added and others removed depending on particular needs of specific situations so that there probably isn’t a real stable prototypical configuration.Even more,there probably were different types and makes of cars used,not counting the different steamers that could (and probably have) power(ed) this train.This all adds to the complexity and the challenge in recreating this train but I want to give it a try.
Being in N scale pretty much squeezes my options I guess and I’ll probably have to find the cars under different RR colors,assemble a reasonably authentical train then custom paint the whole thing,but then it’s modelling to me and I’m in no rush.But to succeed,I need answers to a few questions like…
1)How many cars would have the Portland Rose been generally made of?
2)What types and makes were these cars?Pullman,Harriman,heavyweights,corrugated or smooth sides?Photos,even under other RR colors would be great.
3)Were the Portland Rose cars specific to this train or were they regular UP pas
You’re going to have to do most of the work on this project–that includes the research. I’ve got a copy of the Portland Rose article that Andy refers to. You should start there. There’s also a book that has several photos of the train in it. It’s “Union Pacific Steam, Northwestern District” by Ehernberger and Gschwind. It’ll be tough to find, though. There probably are other books with photos, but I can’t recall any.
But to answer your questions as best I can as I appreciate your enthusiasm:
A challenger was not uncommon on the train. It would be a good choice. It would also use, on occasion, a 4-8-2 or a 4-6-2. I have my doubts whether a model 4-6-2 can pull the length of train you want. Oh yes, a 4-8-4 would not be out of line. I would think the engine could be either black or two-tone, depending on the exact date and your preferences. The same goes with whether the striping on the engine is silver or yellow.
The train would vary in length enormously. It would sometimes be in two sections. A dozen cars would not be unreasonable. There were a lot of head end cars. I would recommend an RPO, 5 baggage (unsorted mail) cars, 3 coaches, a diner and a sleeper. Most or all of the cars would be heavyweight, except for perhaps the sleeper. For a lightweight sleeper, I would pick a 6-6-4 (a smoothside). If anyone makes Harriman cars in N, I would recommend picking those up. The pictures I’ve been looking at show a lot of Harriman cars.
I doubt whether the train ever ran as an all two-tone grey train. I would probably make the train half two tone and half Pullman green. In the later years, there would be less of the green and the yellow cars would start showing up. If you use a lightweight sleeper, it should probably be yellow.
The cars were generally not “assigned” to the train. Even if they were, I would not spend too much time worrying about it.
So, if you want to get a jump on collecting cars before the research mat
The book Union Pacific Streamliners by Ranks and Kratville,lists consists for the Portland Rose circa 1959. One consist lists reclining seat coaches,buffet lounge car,club lounge service,and streamlined sleeping cars. Not all cars were carried the entire distance. Hope this helps.
