In photos of transition era diesel passenger trains, I’ve seen steam generator cars… how were the pass. units heated in later (60, 70 and 80’s ) pass. trains? Were the generators included in the more modern “B units”, etc. ???
Thanks… Bob
Most railroads equipped their diesel passenger locomotives with steam generators. Space for one has almost always been provided in most diesel road locomotives from FTs right up through GE U-Boats. RS series and GP series would put it inside the high short hood. There was even a passenger version of an SD45, (the SDP-45) as well as an F45 (the FP-45). The steam generators in locomotives were easier for the crew to maintain and operate since they wouldn’t have to move to another car to check on it… A steam generator was an option on a locomotive and usually ordered when buying a locomotive, just like you add options to a new car.
There were advantages to steam generator cars however. They could provide heat to the train regardless of what locomotive was being used. You could also heat a bigger train. Also, adding a steam generator to a locomotive meant that a water tank was also needed. That took away space that could be taken up by a larger fuel tank that would allow the train to go farther. It all depended on the individual railroad. Some railroads equipped A and B units. Some only equipped B units. Remeber that electric locomotives were also used on passenger trains and they would be equipped with steam generators, too. Ever see a GG-1 blow off extra steam? Quite a sight to behold! Electric road locomotive right up through Amtrak’s E60CP had space for steam generators.
As a side note, the Erie-Lackawanna ordered SDP-45s without the steam generator. Because the SDP-45 was 3 feet longer than the standard SD-45 (to allow for the steam generator) the EL simply ordered it because the extra 3’ allowed for a 5,000 gallon fuel tank. The New York, Ontario & Western had 2 steam generator cars, although equipping all of their FTs and F3s with steam generators would have cost less than building the 2 steam generator cars!
Thanks for that information… it was something I had wondered about for a while.
Bob
The steam generator/boiler itself wasn’t very big, but the water needed often took up a lot of space. An F2 or later EMD F unit could put a steam generator and a small water tank in an A unit, enough to handle a few passneger cars. A B unit had much more room for the water so often it was the B units that held the steam and water.
Northern Pacific had some baggage cars in North Coast Limited service that had water tanks in one end; that end always had to face the diesels so it could be connected up to provide more water for the train going thru the cold winters on the mainline between St.Paul and Seattle. Unfortunately sometimes the connecting pipes/hoses would freeze up, and a crewman would have to lean out the baggage car’s front door and try to thaw them with a fusee…while travelling 60+MPH on a very cold winter night !!
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I think electric Head End Power (HEP) systems were adopted in the 1970s and most equipment in use during that period had their steam heat systems replaced.
Here in Canada, VIA didn’t start converting steam heated cars to HEP until the 1980s when the F40PH-2s were delivered. Even then, only the stainless steel Budd built cars were converted. That is also when the wholesale retirement of the old blue cars (ex-CN) took place. Until the entire fleet was coverted to HEP, steam generators and /or FP7/9s were needed to heat them.
The Algoma Central dieselized in 1952 with 21 GP7 locomotives. None of their locomotives were ever ordered with steam generators. Several steam generator cars were built or acquired for heating trains. That way, any of their road units could be used for either freight or passenger service, with no concern about having freight only and passenger only assigned units in such a small fleet. Definately more flexible that way, and then you don’t need to maintain steam generator equipment on all your locomotives, just the small group of dedicated generator cars. Probably the potential for a lot more water capacity on a dedicated generator car too.
As others have mentioned, steam heat ended in the 70’s as Amtrak converted to HEP. Long trains like GN 27/28 sometimes would have a heater car added right after the last sleeper and the heating job split between the locomotive boilers and the heater car(it had two boilers). The GN & NP had long routes through the northern plains and EB trains arriving in St Paul with frozen cars did happen. I was called for a passenger extra(late running NCL arrived frozen). We waited about two hours while the NP crews split the train and thawed out the cars. Lots of sledge hammers/fusee’s and company air to blow out the steam lines. Even the CB&Q would add an extra E unit to a Zephyr to provide additional train heat. The steam was not just for heating. IIRC, some of the Milw cars had a steam activated A/C system(and I think the AT&SF as well). So, steam generators were needed even in the summer months.
Jim
I travelled on the eastbound Empire Builder in September 1977. It had four SDP40F units, two of which were returning to EMD to give up their engines for new F40PH units. A westbound we crossed in Spokane had two F40PHs, the first we’d seen on a long distance train. I guess the wb train had heater cars…
That’s about the time the change occurred. The earlier F40PH units were used on short distance trains of Amfleet cars such as the San Diegans…
M636C
That’s some great info, guys… thanks for the replies.
Bob