If you can find the locos you like with sound at a price that makes sense to you, then go for it. You can always e-bay the non sound version to recoup some cash as well.
Perhaps though, you derive pleasure from installing decoders and don’t mind the cost and time and potential difficulty of installing your own sound systems, in which case you might want to upgrade the current stable?
More likely it will be a bit of both. Some locos you can replace with sound easily, some may not be so easy and require the installation.
A lot depends on the age/style/scale of loco. It is cheaper to buy locos with sound if you like sound. I have gone both ways. With some online sources, buying with sound is definitely cheaper. Don’t forget, If you are a sound rivet counter, the Bachmann and Athearn factory equipped decoders have less features than the decoders you install yourself. Bachmann and Athearn will not sell their decoders separately.
Buying without sound and just control only, might be about the same.
As far as sound goes, I doubt we will ever have what “we” think is prototype sound. WE want full scale sound from much smaller scale locos and we want it as cheap as possible. Not going to happen. Don’t forget, we squeeze miles into a layout that could be 20 feet by 50 feet. A HO scale mile is about 60.6 feet.
On this layout I made the big leap to DCC and had to deal with the upgrade to dcc or sell and buy replacement locomotive dilemma as many others have had. The first thing I did was determine how many locomotives I had that were simply dcc ready and which would require hard wire conversions such as the Athearn Blue box loco’s we all have in our inventory. Well the Athearn’s seemed to be some of the simpler conversions as were some Proto 2K diesels. However some of my low end quality Steam locomotives such as IHC etc. were not worth the time or aggravation involved in installing decoders, when they can be replaced for under $100.00. So I have listed them forsale with other inventory that I no loinger want.
So now I have a complete roster that is either DCC ready which all of my Spectrum’s are and the “easy to convert” part of the roster. As far as I am concerned if it has an NMRA plug installed then adding a decoder with our with out sound is nothing. In most cases if it is DCC ready and sound is available from the factory they have done all the hard work for you as far as where to locate the speakers and baffles etc. I have 3 Proto H2K Y3 mallets that came without decoders. two were decorated and one not, But they all have the factory provisions to have decoders and sound. I installed QSI sound in two of them and a Loksound decoder in the other. All of them turned out to be less expensive then if I had purchased them with factory sound. I feel if you have some what medium level skills putting in sound decoders in a DCC ready locomotive is no big deal and you get exactly what you want not what they give you.
You will read post after post of how guys are unsatisfied with MRC decoders that came in Athearn Genesis locomotives myself included so why settle for something you don’t want or like when it’s no more difficult then assembling a structure kit. The only difference is you need to have some decent soldering skills.
The speed control of DC sound equiped locos on DC, be they BLI “Blueline” or DCC dual mode decoders, is very poor. I know, I have tried it. Because of the high starting voltage they are very touchy and hard to control at slow speeds. Not to mention the fact that at zero throttle the sounds stop abruptly. That is alomst as anoying as the sound itself.
The other issue is control of advanced sound functions. This is awkward at best with “accessory” controllers and such. I use Aristo Craft Train Engineer wireless radio throttles for my DC control system. None of those “accessory” controllers would be practical.
DCC does offer good control of sound features if you want sound. So I do feel the two are “married” in that sense.
Maybe we are the rivet counters of sound, but the other aspect of this is cost vs return. Sound is expensive, would you pay $100 for an Athearn RTR box car? That’s how I see sound. WAY too expensive for what you get. So it needs to be a whole lot better, or a whole lot cheaper, or a fair amont of both before I consider it a valuable addition to my modeling.
Yes, I’ve seen and heard plenty of what’s “new” in Hi Fi. and while your Cerwin Vega’s weren’t bad in their day, they weren’t state of the art even then, no offense.
My own systems designed 25 years ago produce below 25 hz bass with 10" drivers in a relatively small bass reflex enclosure.
But even the best stuff being done with HO sound systems is still in the 200-300 hz range, and 400-500 hz is more typical. Pretty poor for reproducing the sounds of a train.
As for Poteet, actually we have been known to disagree on rare occasion, but great minds do tend to think alike.
Is there the slightest chance we could keep this on track?
The question was who has upgraded to sound and would you do it again?
If you have not upgraded to sound why did you even bother to post to this question, or is it that you can not comprehend the question and just post out of habit?
To those who have upgraded to sound and commented on that experience. Thank you.
You rephrased your question when no one responed quickly enough, so then you got some “no” responses with explainations, and then conversations go where ever they go.
Sheldon,
You have a uncompromising postion on sound. I can appreciate that. You only want 100% sound realism, including (from previous posts on this subject), a GPS-like wireless headset that would scale the sound quality and volume depending on how near or far every locomotive is on your railroad from your ears. This is a laudible goal, but such perfection is rare and sure to be expensive. [;)]
Even in physical modeling, only the Proto:87 crowd gets that close to perfection with scale sized wheels, couplers, track, and more. But even they don’t have spinning end caps on their diesel trucks (not that I’ve seen).
Everybody in this hobby must accept a compromise of some sort (if nothing else because friction doesn’t scale). Most of us think nothing of fat RP25 wheels, Kadee couplers, small switch frogs, tight radius curves, jackrabbit starts, and slamming stops. Those of us that like HO sound know darn well that it’s not the chest-shaking bass that real trains give you. We get that. But like Kadee couplers that aren’t 100% realistic, imperfect sound is a plus and well worth it for most modelers that can afford it.
Why? Because it adds realism, as imperfect as it is. Sure, the sound quality itself isn’t realistic, but the actions taken because of sound can make folks run the trains more realistically.
Let me put it this way: At my club, only a couple guys ever tried momentum effects with DCC before sound came on the scene. Heck, even at my old club 1953-era layout with PSI DC throttles that had momentum, service brakes, etc. were rarely used with momentum. Nobody played with it because it’s boring as heck to throttle up and see nothing happen until the momentum effects engage. In fact, with DCC, it ticked people off because they thought the loco was broken because it wouldn’t move right away. [:)]
Yes I have, IHC locos x 2 with Soundtraxx LC type decoders. Will never use them again unless I can figure out a good keep alive circuit. Also did a Rivarossi Big Boy with a Tsunami heavy steam. It was real challenge, but fun and I am happy with the results. Yes I would do it again.
Sheldon,
You have a uncompromising postion on sound. I can appreciate that. You only want 100% sound realism, including (from previous posts on this subject), a GPS-like wireless headset that would scale the sound quality and volume depending on how near or far every locomotive is on your railroad from your ears. This is a laudible goal, but such perfection is rare and sure to be expensive.
Even in physical modeling, only the Proto:87 crowd gets that close to perfection with scale sized wheels, couplers, track, and more. But even they don’t have spinning end caps on their diesel trucks (not that I’ve seen).
Everybody in this hobby must accept a compromise of some sort (if nothing else because friction doesn’t scale). Most of us think nothing of fat RP25 wheels, Kadee couplers, small switch frogs, tight radius curves, jackrabbit starts, and slamming stops. Those of us that like HO sound know darn well that it’s not the chest-shaking bass that real trains give you. We get that. But like Kadee couplers that aren’t 100% realistic, imperfect sound is a plus and well worth it for most modelers that can afford it.
Why? Because it adds realism, as imperfect as it is. Sure, the sound quality itself isn’t realistic, but the actions taken because of sound can make folks run the trains more realistically.
Let me put it this way: At my club, only a couple guys ever tried momentum effects with DCC before sound came on the scene. Heck, even at my old club 1953-era layout with PSI DC throttles that had momentum, service brakes, etc. were rarely used with momentum. Nobody played with it because it’s boring as heck to throttle up and see nothing happen until the momentum effects engage. In fact, with DCC, it tick
I will jump in here and share some of my experience and those who I know in the hobby. I have gone the factory installed route (QSI decoders in BLI Cab Forwards) and have added sound decoders to around eight more locos. Here is summation of my experiences: (scales are 1-5, five being awesome)
I added an LC decoder to a spectrum shay. It turned out pretty well, but in this instance I might buy a Tsunami equipped factory install as the speaker enclosure is not ideal in the aftermarket kit and the LC has a few quirks that the Tsunami doesn’t have. This was the first sound install I did before the Tsunami was available, at the time I was in Hog Heaven running the thing.
Difficulty 2, Satisfaction 4
I added a full size Tsunami to a Spectrum medium vandy tender (SP). Never again! The install was difficult. Not enough space to cram it all and the sound turned out just
I have been operating my trains at realistic speeds in a prototypical fashion since well before ModelTronics, let alone current DCC/sound equipment. I don’t need to be “prompted” to do that.
Other people’s ability or inability to understand all this is not of much concern to me - remember, I’m not a “club” guy and I’m tring to “sell” my version of the hobby to anyone, for money or personal satisfaction.
I associate with a small group of modelers, and I only do that to the level that suits me. Remember, one of my control system g
To be honest sometimes I find it annoying as well. If I have a few people over I’ll show off my sound loco’s. Everyone enjoys them and enjoy ringing the bells and blowing the whistles. When I’m alone I tend to turn the sound off after awhile.
So there you have it - for me, it costs way too much for the little use/effect/benifit. And I would rather spend my modeling time building/detailing something to be seen all the time than installing something to be heard only occasionally.
Sheldon, not sure if this is your personal best or not. You have to now, 9 of 35 replies on this thread, with not one reply pertaining to the subject. Which of course is often your specialty.
As to “hijacking” a thread. I admit there is non better than you. Will of course wait for the last word.
I didn’t hijack anything, and if anyone did it was climaxpwr, not me. Poteet and I just responed to his post, and others to us etc.
I think I did address your question, but maybe not directly enough. No I have not upgraded any of my Spectrum locos and don’t plan to ever. And have no intention of replacing them with sound versions either. All the reasons are explained elsewhere in this thread.
I have a lot of Spectrum locos and am very pleased with them. The few that came with decoders promptly had them removed.
As for thread hijacking, do you mean like how every time someone asks a question about DC, a dozen replies pop up telling the OP why and how DCC would solve all his problems? (So he can then join the ranks of those DCC questions on the Electronics and DCC board) Even if the OP made it clear in the begining he had no interest in DCC? You mean thread hijacking like that? That goes on continuiously on here.
As for the post count, that is mainly a result of my answering each person seperately.
