Newbie to this…got a lot of used and new rolling stock, into intermodal and diesel (modern era) planning my first layout. Now, couplers…been to Kadee’s site, here is my question: All the models listed therein (hundreds)… and the conversion info…do I go to my rolling stock manufacturer and buy the Kadee model listed for that specific car? Does that mean that my Kato SDF90/43 MAC uses a “MCS” coupler and another piece of rolling stock uses a “27” coupler, that they will operate fine together? Are all these other models just variations of a #5 coupler, i.e made to be a #5 for that car, longer, taller, shorter? Very confused, can anyone point me to info on this?
[#welcome]
In general, yes you are right. There are different couplers for different cars, because not all cars have the coupler box mounted at the same hight. To match all your cars, follow the guidelines on the Kadee website. There are also different shaft lengths, which are usually used on longer cars to get around a tighter radius on smaller layouts, or to clear details such as the plow or cow-catcher on locomotives. Hope this helps!
Also, see the little side note on the bottom of the Kadee coupler choice page about MCS couplers.
It gets even more complicated than that![:-,] Now there’s scale size heads, whiskers and whiskers with scale size heads.(Did I mention shelf couplers too?[:-^])
My [2c]. Buy a bulk pack of #5’s (or 148’s. The whisker version of the #5) Get a gauge. (this is a must) Some shims and some of their new draft gear boxes and go from there. This should cover 75% of your stuff. You can then see what’s left that you have to get “special” couplers for.(short/long shank. Offset head, etc…)
A simple question that I have searched for the eternal answer for. Thank you for your reply, it makes a lot of sense, guess I could not see the forest for all the tress in my way !!! So, it seems that many guys use only #5’s, and will go to great lenghts to only use #5’s?
Sounds like good advice…That’s what I’ll do
Thanks again
Yes. Or now the #148 “whisker” which is basically a #5 with a built in centering spring that makes installation more simple. The whisker is a relatively new product.
Scale size heads look more prototypical, but your track work needs to be close to perfect for them to work correctly. The #5 is the one most folks use.
Just to clarify a bit, except for the relatively recently-introduced Kadee scale couplers, all the couplers Kadee makes has the exact same standardized coupling head, and couple with each other very nicely.
The different types of “couplers” Kadee offers are really different type of coupler shanks, and different methods to attach the couplers to the car or engine. Some have a long shank, some have a very short shank, some have the coupler high, some have it low, some in the middle…but it’s the same coupler. 95% of the time, a Kadee no.5 will work, but sometimes it’s necessary to use one of the other couplers to get a better ‘fit’. But they aren’t different couplers really, they’re designed to all work together.
BTW the Kadee scale couplers supposedly will work with their regular couplers, they aren’t that different just a little smaller.
Dont be fooled by the imitators, they will break. Stick with any Kadee coupler product (#5s, 148s and 58s will fit into 99% of applications) and you will never have any breakage.
David B
That is the answer that I needed to the question I did not know to ask.
"all the couplers Kadee makes has the exact same standardized coupling head, and couple with each other very nicely. "
NO! The scale sized heads are smaller. They WILL couple up with the standard size heads though.
I’m the dissonate voice in the Kadee chorus.
It’s been my experience that all the various knuckle couplers work fine. I’ve not found the plastic couplers to be any more prone to breakage or warping than the Kadee products, provided that a proper mounting job is done.
I use what comes with my equipment for the most part. Everything gets tested against a Kadee height guage.
In any case enjoy your Model Railroad!
Mark Gosdin
Kadee makes 3 different mounts (coupler box & springs) to accomodate *various manufactured products. (The newest ‘Whisker’ design is to fit into whatever comes supplied). It also costs more.
Kadee makes 3 different lengths (x3, x8, & x6) to accomodate short, med. & long spacing between cars. Think of #'s ending with a 6 for long Passengercars, and those ending in 8 for freight. The shorter 1/4" length (ending in 3) was for the few modelers who wanted more prototype spacing - and had wide enough curves for it.
Example: Athearn Genesis ‘F’ engines come with 1/4" couplers, but do better on 4X8 layouts with longer ones.
Basically the # 5 fits most (It’s same as a #48).*Some manufacturers make products to accomodate Kadee couplers. Some do not. That is why Kadee has a conversion list.
May I recommend a bulk pack of 5’s (#10) and set of washers and #40’s - #42 - #47 for you, plus a height gauge (either). Now you are set for 99% of what you will encounter. Replentish stock as you need it.
Allow the crazy O scaler to add his [2c] worth on the issue of couplers.
(I also do a little HO scale too)
Anyway, as for the compatability Kadees will mate with Kadees, and other couplers. (Trim off the “horn” and the infamous horn-hooks will couple up too) The only ones I have had problems with in HO are the Accumates. Over time some of them have sagged in storage.
I replaced tham with Kadee #5s!
Now, O scale is hard on couplers! In O, Kadee, Atlas and Weaver all make a knuckle coupler. I have standardized on Kadees (804-805) for everything. Atlas’ are way too stiff, and Weaver’s have a nasty habit of breaking at the knuckle (my trains get into the 20 pound range) if there is too much slack action.
That’s 'bout right. The traditional Kadee’s all have the same head, which looks pretty good and works well but is somewhat oversized. The “scale” Kadee couplers are merely traditional Kadee’s with smaller heads, closer to scale size. Being smaller, more care is required to get all the couplers in your fleet to exactly the same height. If one car has a high coupler and the mating car has a low coupler, they will uncouple. The scale couplers work if you take more than ordinary care adjusting the height of every coupler in your fleet of rolling stock. Me, I stick with the traditional size Kadee, it looks good enough for me, and I hate accidental uncoupling. The scale couplers intermate with the traditional couplers, no sweat.
Most rolling stock will accept a #5 Kadee or it’s “whisker, no separate bronze centering spring” equivalent. With enough work, you can warp a #5 into anything. However, you can save a lot of filing, shimming and hacking by consulting the Kadee conversion chart. If Kadee recommends such and such a coupler for a piece of rolling stock, you will have a lot less trouble getting recommended coupler into said rolling stock than warping in a #5.
Locomotives need non conducting (plastic) couplers. The Kadee 30 series couplers are all plastic.
You have to have a coupler height gauge. Kadee sells a good one, or you can make one. A #5 in most (all?) Athearn blue box cars will be low. Assume the coupler height is off on most rolling stock. Check every car. A #6 flat washer under each truck will raise the couplers up to specification.
Thank you, dstarr, and all others. You have answered my question completely. When I was a youngster, I wanted to build a layout, but had no benchwork skills or space, now at 46, I have a complete woodworking shop and tools, a little space, and an understanding wife (and a grandchild on the way) All I have to do now is read the “Forum” and try to ask intelligent questions!
Thanks again,
I sent a letter to 48/ft., O Scale News a few years ago when I found out that Kadees will mate with Atlas, Weaver, Central Locomotive Works (“Boxcar” Jim Watkins now sells them) magnetics, and Monarch, Devore, MDC/Roundhouse AAR type automatics (and possibly scale dummies). I’d been building an O scale model of the MILW gondola-mounted snowplow from Paul Larson’s article in the January, '57, MR, and mounted a Monarch on the plow end, a la prototype and found that a little polishing with needle files would make it compatible with Kadees! (I might someday have to move the plow from the front end.)
So true! Especially on longer cars.
Whisker couplers are great for for the draft gear boxes that post coming from the top down and can’t get screwed tight enough to prevent the bronze spring from shifting around.
One of the replies stating that all locomotives require an insulated shank, is not correct. If the metal coupler is in contact with anything that is electrically connected to the rails only then does it need an insulated shank. Some cars have this problem too. However, you can, in most cases, replace the metal draft gear box with a plastic draft gear box to insulate the coupler and eliminate the possibility of electrical shorts through the couplers.
Around here as regards to couplers, “If it ain’t a Kadee it goes in the trash”
Soon as you double head your steamers or lash up multiple diesels you will want insulated couplers. Most (all?) locomotives use the metal frame (chassis) to conduct current from the wheels to the motor. A metal coupler will contact the chassis and so become hot. When you couple two such locomotives together you have a 50% chance that the coupler on one locomotive is common with the north rail, and the coupler on the other coupler is common with the south rail. Coupled together, metal coupler to metal coupler, you have a direct short from north rail to south rail.
You only notice this problem after putting multiple locomotives on a train.
Cars are (mostly) non conductive plastic and so don’t care about conductive couplers.
With care, it is possible to mount a metal coupler in a plastic coupler box, secured with a nylon screw, and have it insulated from the hot chassis. However if the coupler itself is plastic, you don’t need to be so careful mounting it.
In my house replace ‘Kadee’ with ‘Sergents’. And before anyone asks, someone has already spoken for all the KDs and code 110 metal wheels I can give them.