It’s about not being about the high cost of models. All the while complaining about the high cost of highly detailed models.
Or maybe it’s a lament about the inadequacy of manufacturers who make poor copies of E8’s - that 99.9% of us can’t tell the difference and 99.8% don’t care.
Or maybe it’s about modifying the Mars Rover to look more like a PRR K4s.
I’m not sure anymore.
[(-D][(-D][(-D][(-D]
Paul
Like many discussions, those here often wander from the original topic, and, in my opinion, are often better for it.
Wayne
Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume 2 Diesel Locomotives shows F7B units with Steam Generators.
B&M F7As did not appear to have SG, but the B units did.
No, I utterly reject the notion that the market determines what we get to buy.
In fact, a relatively small, but very vocal, sub-segment of the market, which does want…basically the ultimate in detail…is determining what the rest of us are able to buy. Sure, there are Bachmann-type less detailed models, but a whole lot of recent releases cater to the higher end of detail desired by some very vocal critics.
I purchased a brand new model of a diesel from one manufacturer, and posted a simple thread on another forum about how much I liked it. Unbeknownst to me, there were a couple omissions and things the manufacturer subsequently did fix on those models, but in the meantime, they were taken to task for the few things they did wrong, so much so that in the end, I found absolutely no joy in owning my particular slice of realism in that model, and sold it. I did not appreciate the number of posts and degree of negativity directed toward the particular manufacturer (who subsequently fixed the issues and offered free replacement parts–a very stand up way to handle the situation).
So, in a nutshell, I would agree with Sheldon that sometimes the “experts” do indeed go a little bit too far. Yes, none of that detail is noticeable once trains start moving on a layout.
Perhaps one reason I’m getting into brass steam power is the “experts” out there have either left the regular day-to-day-able-to-post-online-and-critique scene, or they have little interest/funds to be able to purchase/critique/modify said models to suit themselves. It is a little bit easier to appreciate a fine steamer when people aren’t shredding it online, like some seem to do with the latest fill in the blank diesel.
John
Or we can just read the operators manual, which seems to confirm the existance of steam generators in F7A units…
Posted by BMMECNYC on Tuesday, May 09, 2017 5:39 PM
"Model Railroader Cyclopedia Volume 2 Diesel Locomotives shows F7B units with Steam Generators.
B&M F7As did not appear to have SG, but the B units did."
From http://www.railroad.net/forums/viewtopic.php?f=77&t=68370
Boston & Maine F7
"F-7’s 4265 - 4268 were purchased for freight service, but found their way into summer passenger service early in their careers. They were not built with steam generators, but some of the B units were retrofitted with steam generators in the 1960’s to work on the “Ambassador” and “Montrealer” - “Washingtonian” service from Springfield,Mass. to White
The NJCB Boston and Maine 2-10-2 has 4" undersized drivers… I bought it anyway. Why? Close enough, and no one else makes one. Am I going to change it, no.
John just another thing that makes us so different, the opinions of others, no matter how informed
Larry,
Here are a few:
Sheldon
John,
As we can see from this thread, it’s hard enough figuring out how to please yourself.
If you worry about pleasing everyone else…well, that’s just impossible, especially given the very low entry level qualifications to be an internet critic[;)]
Sheldon,Thanks for posting the photos of those F7s…That’s one of the many things I like about the hobby its a continual learning process.
I’m still going to continue the research since I find it very interesting.
Well said Mike!
Mike–
Additional backstory: I was someone who personally lobbied for years for said project to get produced at all. It went from being a joke 30 years ago when I was a kid to reality. Perhaps I was a bit too “emotionally invested” in the project.
Yes, anymore I pretty much don’t care what others think. I like certain Rio Grande and SP steamers, not the same ones everyone else does, but the ones that appeal to me, and those are what I am hunting for in the future. 2-10-2’s, 4-10-2’s, and DRGW 4-8-2’s and 2-6-6-2’s. I might also go for an L-107…saving up cash…Keeping best steam engine I have and trying to sell a couple for modest profit.
John
The real trouble with proto stuff is that just when you say something never happened, up pops a picture. I have seen some really weird stuff both on the net and personal. Also of note, many years ago someone said a particular enginge was never owned by SP, even the historical society said so, untill one day a pic showed up, seems they got one second hand and did the paint job, only to get rid of it not long after they had aquired it.
No worries Larry, happy to share what I know.
My memory was off on how many existed, mainly because I was also thinking of the many F3’s that also had steam generators.
And a considerable number of F7B units were sold with steam generators for use with F7’s and the FP7’s, also making the Athearn B unit correct for a great many locomotives.
And my first post about the ATSF was correct, the passenger ABBA F7 sets had steam generators in the B units and extra water tanks in the A units.
So as built the Athearn shell may only be correct for 50 or so locos, but it is easy to remove the details if you are detailing a unit…
Sheldon
The Bachmann CNJ GP7 looks nice, if only it had the train lighting bulges at the end of the long hood.
I agree, and I’m guessing that it’s not too pricey…
A razor saw and some styrene could fix that, although you could have a little more trouble with the lettering…I’m not aware of what might be available.
Back when I was still modelling the diesel era, there wasn’t much in the way of well-detailed ones available, but that was at a time when diesel detail parts manufacturers began cranking out all manner of detail parts, so anyone who wanted their diesels to be “more prototypical” could buy pretty-well whatever they needed to improve the stock model. I won’t go so far as to knock what’s available today, but the market has changed (or been changed) and many prefer their models to be r-t-r, with no need for further embellishment.
I think that Bachmann locomotives offer a reasonably-priced entry into that former era where the modeller could make something that was truly his, as most of those detail parts are still available. It’s certainly not for everyone, but the sense of satisfaction at creating what you want, rather than simply buying it, should not be underestimated.
Wayne
But why even give them acknowledgment? What is the saying about people who look down their noses at others, some might call them trolls these day? The thing trolls want is attention, they thrive on it. Best thing is to not feed the troll or the hyper critical train guy. Pay them no mind, seriously. I see way too much attention given to the negative Nancy’s in the hobby. We’ve had enough of them. Please … fugetubit!
Well and good, but I think there IS a consensus that there are a couple of models out there that do get the old EMD nose about as right as you will ever see, and those would be the Lubliner, Highliner F (Genesis F) and Rapido’s FP7A (laser scanned from a prototype). I don’t think we’ve seen an E unit done to quite that degree yet - I don’t have a dog in that fight but that does seem to be the consensus - I’ll givem them that due without a rebutt.
What, like the demand for RTR over kits? nuff said right there. Oh, and what about the most excellent, match the prototype, models from Moloco and Tangent?
But you rejected the market determines what we buy (above)? Aren’t these very vocal customers a “market”? Ask Nick Molo, ask
Wayne,
I think you touch on an important point. People are often shy about working on such projects. They think that they can’t do as good a job as the folks at tthe factory, so why bother? But the only way to get those skills is to try and improve. Sure, the first project will be intimidating and likely won’t meet your expectations.
But if RTR is not meeting your expectations, then what do you really have to lose? The next project turns out a little better, then the next, and pretty soon you no longer fear making a new RTR loco or car worse, you’re anticipating improving it.
Then you start thinking about what you can build from scratch.
Obviously, not all of us turn into skillful modelers with such confidence. Even once you’re able to turn out great models, there are ones that turn out not so great – but you built it and still usually don’t mind having it on the layout despite the imperfections. Heck, you have to get right up close and know what to look for with many “mistakes.” At 3 feet, it’s fine.
What really matters is not how perfect the models you modify or build are, it’s the freedom of knowing you’re no longer stuck with what the mfgs are willing to build. The what’s “uinprototypical” about their latest release either doesn’t matter or is a simple challenge to your improving skill set.
Bottom Line: Don’t let
[quote user=“riogrande5761”]
There is plenty of room for everyone, but it is often that extreem proto group that is quick to look down their nose at others.
But why even give them acknowledgment? What is the saying about people who look down their noses at others, some might call them trolls these day? The thing trolls want is attention, they thrive on it. Best thing is to not feed the troll or the hyper critical train guy. Pay them no mind, seriously. I see way too much attention given to the negative Nancy’s in the hobby. We’ve had enough of them. Please … fugetubit!
As pointed out above, it is questionable as to if there even was one “nose profile” at EMD, considering how they were made. One profile, plus or minus 2-3 inches.
Sheldon
Well and good, but I think there IS a consensus that there are a couple of models out there that do get the old EMD nose about as right as you will ever see, and those would be the Lubliner, Highliner F (Genesis F) and Rapido’s FP7A (laser scanned from a prototype). I don’t think we’ve seen an E unit done to quite that degree yet - I don’t have a dog in that fight but that does seem to be the consensus - I’ll givem them that due without a rebutt.
PRR8259
No, I utterly reject the notion that the market determines what we get to buy.