Jim,You and I seen the types that write if your models isn’t 100% accurate you’re just playing trains and they’re not trolling by a country mile because they fully and truly believe it.
I suppose I cause a few of those good old boys to spit coffee or their drinks over they computer screen because I have said several times I still enjoy switching with my BB GP7 as much as I do with my Walthers P2K GP7 or my Genesis GP9. Some may consider that trolling but,it’s the truth and they say the truth will stand when the worlds on fire.
I am also just as proud with my collection of BB and Roundhouse cars as I’m my Atlas,Walthers,Exact Rail,IM and Red Caboose cars. I have a small collection(around 30 cars) of KD 40’ boxcars
Why do I have those KD cars?
I been thinking of a steam era ISL and that’s how the collection started…
No doubt, there is an exhaustive amount of items across the last some 80 years that most products are covering. Probably the fact that model companies have increasingly raised the level of accuracy during the past 20 years has caused some modelers to have unrealistic expectations, it’s true.
Me having started in the hobby as a teen in the 1970’s, I’m tickled pink with what I can buy and realize we have it better than we ever have. Sadly, there are some who don’t appreciate what we have today - in what I consider the golden age of the hobby (when you combine present, recent and past products we can access). What else can we do but let folks know that the world will never be perfect and try to appreciate what we have these days.
Perhaps in model form the percentage is very small, but we have the best selection we have ever had, and with a little effort, we can build trains which are far more realistic looking compared to 20 or 30 years ago. I continue to be amazed at what Nick Moloe and David Lehlbach are offering - they even have photo’s of the prototype that the model matches on their website to prove they are not foobies or stand-in’s. At least for 1960’s thru 1980’s, which I know a little about, there is quite a bit from intermountain, Athearn/Genesis, Tangent, ExactRail, Moloco, Wheels of Time, Scale Trains, Atlas and Trainworx, that are very close matches to many prototypes.
How does what the market demands have anything to do with this topic?
In the context of this thread, the market obviously demands that Proto make a less than accurate E7/8.
So I would assume that what the market demands is not the issue. The issue appears to be that a small group of people constantly complain that the producers produce less than accurate models.
They complain that producers ARE meeting market demand…but not their own.
You know, maybe in my teens and twenties I might have been bothered by those people, but I’m long long past caring about them now. Just get yourself a can of “Troll B-Gone” and spray them with it when they approach! [:D]
Jim,I don’t pay attention to them and some times I fell sorry for them since they don’t see the big picture.
I’ve been in clubs that had members from all walks of life from high school students to a attorney yet,we held one thing in common our shared interest for model trains and railroads…
ATLANTIC CENTRAL
Like Wayne, Mike and others have suggested, I think too many have unrealistic expectations considering the massive scope of North American railroad history.
No doubt, there is an exhaustive amount of items across the last some 80 years that most products are covering. Probably the fact that model companies have increasingly raised the level of accuracy during the past 20 years has caused some modelers to have unrealistic expectations, it’s true.
Me having started in the hobby as a teen in the 1970’s, I’m tickled pink with what I can buy and realize we have it better than we ever have. Sadly, there are some who don’t appreciate what we have today - in what I consider the golden age of the hobby (when you combine present, recent and past products we can access). What else can we do but let folks know that the world will never be perfect and try to appreciate what we have these days.
The best models out there only represent a single digit percentage of the stuff I need to build a cohesive layout, and I don’t have time to scratch build the rest.
And, I want to build and run trains, not spend my life doing research.
Sheldon
Perhaps in model form the percentage is very small, but we have the best selection we have ever had, and with a little effort, we can build trains which are far more realistic looking compared to 20 or 30 years ago. I continue to be amazed at what Nick Moloe and David Lehlbach are offering - they even have photo’s of the prototype that the
Seems you got just a little bit hasty with the cutting and pasting, and apparently did not fully read the rest of my post before reacting to it.
I said the market does not factor into what we are able to buy but rather a small but very vocal subset of the market which is rather loudly clamoring for the utmost levels of detail has a disproportionate influence over the rest of the market. Not everybody in the marketplace is clamoring for near-brass levels of detail, only a few–but they are the loudest few, and have no qualms about telephoning manufacturers and demanding what they want. The squeaky wheel gets the grease…until said manufacturer finds out the hard way that certain things do not sell…which has actually happened.
One manufacturer told me straight out that undecorated diesels did not sell–did not even make the minimum pre-order requirements–but as a form of “customer service” they did them anyway, at a loss (basically amortized over the costs of the rest of the production run, so hard to quantify actual loss). They told me they will not do undecorated diesels again, ever.
Certain people are clamoring loudly for ACL/SCL models, but the marketplace, with some limited notable exceptions, did not actually buy them, and now one manufacturer is stripping them for parts because they can’t give them away.
So I reject the notion that the market as a whole determines what we get. It is the rather loud influence of a few.
Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It’s got to be quite a lot.
Not everybody wants to buy the highest end, fully detailed, see-through autoracks, for exampl
Portholes can be closed up by filling them with green stuff and sanding smooth. Or plating over with very thin styrene or brass. Lots of details can be changed. Some require only a little bit of effort and some require more. If you make the attempt, you are a modeler, even if your results aren’t perfect. If you don’t make the attempt, you are not a modeler but a purchaser. You have the right to be either one, or a combination of the two. You also have the right to suggest ways that a manufacturer can improve his product.
Steemtrayn’s CNJ Geep can be improved by adding the extension with styrene, and touching up the paint. Actually, I think CNW also had extensions like this, so maybe there is an opportunity for an aftermarket parts manufacturer to make the part. He can make that change if he wishes, but he isn’t violating any legal or ethical code if he doesn’t. It’s his hobby and his choice. Nobody makes a B&O Shark diesel that has the extra sandboxes that B&O added to their noses in the later years, but they can easily be added by anybody with a few scraps of styrene and an XActo blade.
I think you cross the line when you expect the manufacturer to do everything for you and cater to all the unique features of your chosen prototype.
Or if one desires, step up, spend the cash, and buy a “closer” to prototype version in brass, if/when it is available. Even then, it can be quite a challenge to find what one wants. Some models can be very difficult to find, at any price point.
Completely agreed, we are now full circle. On page one I suggested the OP fill in the port holes, touch them up with some silver paint, weather the model to the typical poor condition of an AMTRAK E unit, and no one will know if he did a good job or not…
Modeling, it does seem that modeling the trains has been replaced by train collecting and layout building…
Still interesred in building trains, not just structures and scenery…
Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It’s got to be quite a lot.
John, great point, example, I have 4 Spring Mills Depot B&O wagon top covered hoppers, but I have eaaily 400 Athearn Blue Box freight cars…
If by Athearn blue and yellow box you mean Athearns modern RTR line, they offer some pretty nice stuff amongst them and if you are choosy, some are accurate for some prototypes - Athearns RTR line is quite decent in the past 10 years, even including some of the former Genesis line. The warmed over ex-Details West stuff I steer clear of although I still have a few original DW box cars from the olden days. I was looking at some wreck photo’s on the D&RGW and low and behold, I saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype of what Athearn made - have one on the roster now.
I used to have a bunch of Athearn blue box rolling stock but I’m down to maybe 20-25 or so pieces, most of them 86’ auto box cars, because they are the only game in town. One of these days a manufacturers may actually offer HQ quality Thrall 86’ auto parts cars; I see people asking for them often.
The boutique stuff, like Spring Mill and Moloco (is Moloco Boutique?) are really nice and of course at $50-55 a pop, I can’t afford many but they fill holes in the roster and provide some interesting models. I’ve got one of the B&O Canstock cars and one of the NATX PD cars, and plan on picking up on Chessie versions next time I’m at Timonium. The PD cars were regulars on the Rio Grande, reallyI
As near as I can tell the original poster was whining because the Proto E8 had four portholes instead of the number blanked out in one photo.
Considering how side panels on E and F units were replaced, you would need an infinite number of variations, which is a ridiculous notion.
And Highliner decided they’d offer a shell kit so the fussypants whiners could model EXACTLY the porthole arrangement of any F unit they wanted, and they proceeded to not sell.
Yes, a few boutique manufacturers are offering outstanding levels of detail, or a few outstanding items. But have you ever considered how many ordinary Athearn blue and yellow box freight cars are sold for every one specialty, higher end item? It’s got to be quite a lot.
John, great point, example, I have 4 Spring Mills Depot B&O wagon top covered hoppers, but I have eaaily 400 Athearn Blue Box freight cars…
Sheldon
If by Athearn blue and yellow box you mean Athearns modern RTR line, they offer some pretty nice stuff amongst them and if you are choosy, some are accurate for some prototypes - Athearns RTR line is quite decent in the past 10 years, even including some of the former Genesis line. The warmed over ex-Details West stuff I steer clear of although I still have a few original DW box cars from the olden days. I was looking at some wreck photo’s on the D&RGW and low and behold, I saw a Nestle PC&F box car amonst them - thats the first time I saw an example of that prototype of what Athearn made - have one on the roster now.
I used to have a bunch of Athearn blue box rolling stock but I’m down to maybe 20-25 or so pieces, most of them 86’ auto box cars, because they are the only game in town. One of these days a manufacturers may actually offer HQ quality Thrall 86’ auto parts cars; I see people asking for them often.
The boutique stuff, like Spring Mill and Moloco (is Moloco Boutique?) are really nice and of course at $50-55 a pop, I can’t afford many but they fill holes in the roster and provide some interesting model
I’m rather circumspect in complaining about progress in the technology used in our hobby. People used to complain about DCC causing the costs of locos to climb. Now we mostly accept that as what sells. It’s part of what makes the hobby attractive to younger fol