i recently purchased two athearn RTR locomotives. CNW SD60 #8017 and CNW C44-9W #8762. they both are listed as equipped with DCC quick plug. why is DCC important for these? do you need it to run multiple powered locomotives in the same consist? like does DCC allow for you to face one of the units backwards and DCC will put it in reverse and the lead unit in forward? or is it something else?
lastly, if i were to run these 2 locomotives on DCC track without converting them to DCC, would the track current fly their motors?
“Digital Command Control allows you to operate multiple locomotives independent of each other at the same time with varying speeds and directions on the same electrically controlled section of track.”
The DCC qick-plug allows easy conversion to DCC control and operation (see above post).
Running any RTR loco on DC will not affect the locomotive. DCC requires a decoder/reciever that plugs into that plug. If you’re using DC, just ignore it.
Also I think all engines use right rail first (Facing forward).
Some engines are advertised as fully functional like Broadway Limited with Factory Installed Sound and DCC. Others are advertised as ready to accept a decoder like a quick plug. Pure analog engines require a hardwiring of a DCC decoder (With or without sound) if they are to run under computer control.
Analog engines are just as good because DCC does allow them to run under a DC conditions using a address of 00 (I think.)
Analog engines will take what availible electricity they need up to the limits availible from both the power supply and the motor’s stall limit. Some packs are not able to feed more than a few at once; especially trainset ones.
DCC has more robust power supplies with the track carrying a constant load. The rail is actually used to send and recieve data packets similar to what computers use to talk to each other. Each DCC engine likes to listen for commands that has it’s address while ignoring all commands meant for other engines.
I could put 4 Dual Mode F units together under analog power and they will run. But not very well. If each of the engines were paired off with a master and a slave address and then consisted under DCC then they will really work together.
There is no such thing as a stupid question.
DCC is a wonderful world but a highly precise one. It is more of a journey of book learning, reasearch and finding the best fit for your plans.
Identical locomotives such as your two Athearns should run together on DC power no matter which way they are facing to each other; i.e., one facing forward and one facing backward, connected together, will run in the same direction on DC power, so if you don’t have a DCC system there’s no reason to put a decoder in them.
If you were to place them on a DCC powered track without decoders in them, they wouldn’t move. The lights may come on, and the motors might make a buzzing noise and overheat, but they wouldn’t run unless the DCC system could run a non-decoder equipped engine on address 00; but only one locomotive can be ran this way.
First off, the DCC primer link (called DCC For Beginners) that Neutrino provided is a good one. Definitely worth your reading.
To answer your questions. Just because the locomotives that you purchased come with a DCC quick plug, doesn’t mean DCC is any more or less “important” for those locomotives, only that the manufacturer has provided you the ability to add a decoder to them, if you should so desire. So, no, you don’t need DCC or a decoder to run your locomotives in a consist.
The challenge comes when your two said locomotives run at different speeds on the same setting: One locomotive will push or drag on the other locomotive. This can become hard on motors and couplers.
With DCC and your DCC throttle, you can alter the speed tables of your locomotive’s decoder so that they run at the exact same speed by adjusting what are known as CVs (or configuration variables). You can also have your locomotives consisted together facing the same or opposing directions from one another - e.g. two PA A-units connected back to back - so that run in the same direction. Granted, all this may initially take a little experimenting to set it up, but it can be done.
Yes, you can run DC locomotives on a DCC track…but ONLY if your DCC system has that capability. Most DCC systems do; a couple don’t. (NCE & MRC) In order to do it, the DCC command station “draws out” o
The loco’s you purchased have a socket or plug to allow them to be easily converted to DCC by plugging in a DCC decoder. Most all new models that are produced that don’t already have DCC installed have such a socket to ease conversion to DCC. DCC is only important for these locos if you plan to run them on a DCC controlled layout, otherwise don’t worry. In most cases, if you place these locos on a DCC layout without converting them nothing will happen. They will just sit there and not move. Some DCC systems like Digitrax have a mode that allows you to run a non DCC loco on the system.
If you are running DCC, the quick plug allows an easy conversion to your system. If you are DC only, the quick plug is not important to you. The engines will run just fine on straight DC. Yes you can run multiple units together on DC and they will go in the same direction because direction is determined by track polarity. With DCC you have to program direction of each unit - a very simple step - to make them run together. One advantage of DCC is you can fine tune each engine’s operating characteristics so they will work together smoothly.
Lastly, don’t try to run your DC engine on DCC. I tested a P2K DC engine on my layout for only a second. It protested with a sharp buzz, but no smoke. It still runs ok on DC, so there was no damage, but I don’t think it would fare well for any longer time. If I remember correctly, DCC track power is AC, which is converted to DC by the decoder. No decoder means no run and likely damage in short time. Remember, DCC means Digital Command Control. It does not refer to the type of current running through your rails.
After reading the above answers, I see the problem for me is that my system is NCE. Given that NCE does not provide for DC operation I wouldn’t try it (even though I did), but maybe you could do it safely with another brand of DCC.
DCC is “square wave” AC - either it’s on fully (1) or off fully (0) as opposed to Sine Wave AC (like in standard household electricity). And, as others have said, some DCC systems are able to stretch out the “0” part of the wave to control a standard DC loco (although, as was pointed out it’s generally none too happy about it).
*DISCLAIMER - I’m a CS student, I may be in error regarding the exact nature of whether or not the 1’s and 0’s show “on” or “off” (as they would for a computer).
It’s more fully on or full on in reverse than full off. From a technical standpoint that allows the decoder to be powered all of the time. The data is determined by the length of the pulses. In the systems that allow running of a DC locomotive, one side of the pulse that represents a zero is stretched out, so that the loco see more forward than reverse (or other way round), and so moves.
thanks for the help, guys. my home layout is DC, but my school’s club’s layout is DCC Digitrax. so i was curious if i could run my duo on it. i will read that provided link as soonas time will allow for it. thanks again
Probably the easiest for you would be to install DCC decoders in each unit. They don’t have to be expensive. Having done that, you can run them at the club. Then when you take them home, they will run just fine on your DC layout, provided they are programmed to be DC enabled. That programming is nothing more than a single entry in the initial setup on the program track. Easy! Of course they will run on DC even before you take them to the club, so you can run them immediately at home. When you do go to the club’s program track just enter the above mentioned selection and you will be good to go.
You can also purchase what are called “dual mode” (not duel) decoders that automatically detect what mode you are running in - DC or DCC - and switch it to the right mode. (Beats having to remove the sheel and change a jumper on your decoder board everytime you go from one to another.)
Tony’s Train Exchange has a nice Decoder Comparison Matrix page for making side-by-side comparisons of the various decoders that are available on the market. However, it doesn’t look like they have a column for designating which decoders are dual mode. You may have to inquire from Tony which decoders are dual mode…
thanks again. i will pass these links on to club as well. they also enjoy new tips as over at club, we have begun a brand new layout. as for me, my CNWs still havent yet run. i JUST finished clearing a spot to put my layout back up in. i only got back into modelling since the weekend. so it’s a long road ahead!
i will buy decoders sometime and put them in. likely those dual mode ones. it all depends on price
One of the best dual-mode decoders that will plug right into the Athearn engines is a Train Control Systems (TCS) T-1. These decoders will run on DC or DCC, and can be had for less than $20 each from Litchfield Station.
The T-1s can be programmed to run as a consist at your club, and will run on straight DC block control on your home layout.
In regards running the two Athearn locos on DC: DC is just that: Direct Current. Those locos are NMRA compliant, including S-9 II A: “Directional control of polarity reversing shall be provided, positive potential applied to the right hand rail shall produce forward motion. (3)”. And, Note (3): The term “right hand rail” as used herein means the rail to the right of the observer standing between the rails with their back to the front of the locomotive."
As applied, the word “front” in note 3 is misleading; it should better read: …“with their back to the locomotive”. As per this standard it makes no difference which direction the model loco is facing. Positive potential on the right hand rail and that loco will move toward you; negative potenetial on the right hand rail and that loco will back away from you. And this is true of ALL NMRA compliant locos. Two locos gives four different ways (back-to-back, front-to-front, “elephant style” with either leading) and with positive current in the right hand rail both move togeather one way, reverse the current and both move togeather the other way. I’ve an old 3.5 amp power pack and can run seven Athearns coupled togeather (F7A, F7B, GP9, SD9, (2) SD45s & Trainmaster). And can turn any of them to either direction - they all run togeather. All are of fairly recent manufacture, and have similar drive trains. Locos of other manufacturers also tend to run well with their own kind, but not always will a “lash-up” with a mix of manufacturers work too well. Sometimes nearly not at all. Sorry, I don’t have any SD60s or C44-9Ws, but they should be OK on DC. If not, there’s probably a problem with one of them and it might not run too well anywhere.
And, of course, all this is rather moot if you go DCC. NO, yours is not a stupid question. Real locomotives have a rever