http://lagrangenews.com/news/16783/1-killed-in-train-derailment?platform=hootsuite
Why would emergency braking cause the train to derail?
Slack action/ bunching. (pops up those empty wheelsets with ease)
According to the newspaper story, the conductor was at the controls of the engine. I have the impression that the writer of the account needs some instruction in the operation of road service.
Johnny - After they eliminated the fireman on a train, the conductors were promoted to engineers. I don’t know if they still have this practice.
The train derailed because the kid was in trouble (anxiety or depression maybe) and nobody close to him took notice or cared. That’s the root cause… the rest is just basic physics.
As I mentioned over on the Driver/Engineer thread - many people don’t know. Inasmuch as there’s probably not usually a railroad spokesperson on the scene, there’s no one there to correct anyone when they get it wrong. I’m sure that if an on-scene news briefing was held, it was run by the police, and they’re as likely to get it wrong as anyone.
As Madam La Mook notes, many crew members these days are qualified both as engineers and conductors, so it is possible the designated conductor was at the controls. Or not. I wouldn’t take any news report that doesn’t cite a railroad spokesperson with a grain of salt on that detail.
Since posted the following in Chatterbox though would bring it over to this thread with some editing/?
Posted by blue streak 1 on Wednesday, September 07, 2016 7:12 PM
CSX had a derailment last night ( time unknown ) after teenager walked in front of freight on a road with no sidewalk. Crossing has bells, lights , and gates… Happened on the CSX Lineville sub that runs from LaGrange Ga and Brmingham. Happened in city of LaGrange at the Vernon road crossing Train was a westbound mixed freight. Normal speed limits are 20 - 30 MPH.There is no tunnel only a 5 lane overpass just west of stopped AC locos. All evidence was that train was westbound but could be wrong. A loco(s) pulled the east end of train back to LaGrange yard at about 1115 using back up 3 horn signal.
Had a doctors appointment nearby and witnessed the aftermath this morning. Two AC locomotives stopped about 300 feet west of Vernon road crossing. For whatever reason some train cars jack knifed south to outside of the curve ( crossing is curved and has super elevation. As well tracks intercept road at about 30 - 45 degree angle. ) Several cars on their side on both sides of track including a spilled lumber car to south. Some Lumber in road It seemed that lumber fell off car as it was scattered south of overturned car ? Interesting that two Procor DOT-111 tank cars remained upright west of crossing but do not know if they stayed on rails. Another item is that there is a equipment detector on south side of track but was not touched although cars overturned both east and west of bungalow. Unknown if track detectors were torn up,
Crossing damage was complee with removal of all rail, ties, asphalt and some ballast. Quite a crew there and
I feel for the crew, not only did they witness a suicide but they’ve been involved in a derailment and one never knows how that might turn out. I’ve been in that situation, only one time, one suicide, it’s not a experience I’d wish on any operating crew, or anyone else, for that matter.
What? Trains still have conductors. They do not have firemen unless steam powered. Regardless, engineers are engineers and conductors are conductors. Nothing at all to do with firemen.
More info on derailment. Had to go to the location again this morning. CSX bought in a surfacing machine and ballast regulator from the A&WP sub work. Fortunately CSX also had a bunch of stick rail (no bolt holes ) from the A&WP sub work and brought it in to repair the track.
The signal damage appears to be extensive as replacement bungalos for both dragging equipment detector and crossing signals appear to be replaced. As well the west bound crossing signal stand is being replaced along with its wiring. Must have been at least 6 signal maintainer trucks at he place.
There was a fork lift trying to load spilled lumber onto flat bed trucks. Most derailed cars were removed but track was only opened for about 4 - 6 hours last night. There have not been any BNSF haulage trains by since derailment with at least one parked in LaGrange,
One item CSX did not post road closed signs at the last convenient detour location. That was poor PR as cars and trucks had to turn around in medical office complex.
Sounds like that is as much the county/ town’s problem as it was the railroad’s. Closing of the road was hardly planned. (trying to replace a highway/rail road crossing under traffic is not advisable and should not be attempted.)
The thirty-nine or seventy-eight foot pieces of rail not drilled are generally referred to as “blanks” around here.
Were you around during the “featherbedding” time?
All locomotives have a conductor’s emergency brake handle. The modern “comfort” cab (the newer ones are becoming less comfortable) also have a horn button on the conductor’s side. It is plausible that the conductor blew the horn and pulled the air. Although it probably was the engineer that did it.
A couple years ago, going down grade with a 12000 ton manifest near track speed, there was a pick-up truck speeding towards us on a county paved highway on the conductor’s side. The driver slammed on the brakes at the last minute and stopped a few feet short of the tracks. According to the conductor, both occupants were laughing. The conductor then said he had been about ready to pull the air. I told him in that situation, I wasn’t going to big hole it unless we hit. I wasn’t going to risk 12000 tons of manifest derailing on top of us.
Jeff
Jeff: I would say that there are many, in cabs across this country who basicly feel the same way. In discussions with other railroaders, I have heard those very sentiments discussed.
Primarily, the dangers that concerned them were exac
Personally - and not being a locomotive engineer
The ONLY time a train should be placed in emergency is when such an application ‘stands a chance’ of PREVENTING what appears about to happen. In 99.9% of all incidents, when the situation comes into view, the speed and train size will not permit the train to be stopped with an emergency application prior to the situation that is developing. Make maximum service application in concert with good train handling. The impact is not avoidable by any braking means, so don’t endanger the train by using emergency.
In the indicent that started this thread. Placing the train in emergency DID NOT prevent the impact with the individual and did cause the derailment of cars near the rear of the train - the worst outcome on two levels.
You can’t start second-guessing your actions becuase the train might derail. It’s easy to sit here and armchair quarterback, but it’s a whole different ballgame when you are in that seat with that red handle next to you. Believe me.
Failure to make a full emergency application will simply provide additional fodder for the lawyers in the follow-up lawsuits. Damned if you do- damned if you don’t.
You beat me to it. Lawyers care little about physics…
Back in the late 50’s, on my rides on the PRR’s E-8’s, the sense of impending crashes by cars driving on gravel roads and not seeming to slow as they approached the crossings but did stop just in time gave me, (a co-op student working my work sessions in the Communications and Signal Dept.) a lot of angst. Fortunately, none failed to stop while I was in the cab. However on one trip from Cincinnati OH to Richmond IN when I was back in a coach, we caught a car (just in front of the front tire) and tossed it into a field. The occupants survived but the locomotives pilot was bent down to where it was deemed unsafe to proceed until a welder could remove about two inches of the pilot. We sat for about an hour while the welder made pass over pass with a cutting torch. That steel is thick! The impact also broke the air hoses off the left front of the lead unit. That was solved by driving some broom handle pieces into the pipes. On a couple of my trips, I discussed with the Engineers what they thought about emergency braking for a car on a crossing. All of them stated that their choice is to apply power and hope to knock the car off the track and not have it go under them and cause a derailment. Also, they talked about some crashes that still bothered them. Hitting a gasoline tanker for one. Another mentioned hitting a tanker of molasses.