Orlando’s startup of SunRail is scheduled for May 1st. It was visited the weekend of St. Patrick’s day. Picked Sunday as Orlando traffic is horrific week days and Saturday but was still bad Sunday. Have a bunch of observations about the system.
It appears to be that SunRail spent its money fairly wisely and got the most bang for the buck. will try to cover some of these items. The south end of the phase 1 portion for May 1 is about 3 miles south of downtown Orlando to north of Sanford at DeBary.
SunRail is planning free orientation trips but no schedule is yet published. Trips will be every 30 minutes 5:30 -7:30 & 3:30-6:00 PM during rush and every 2 hours non rush south bound. North 6:15 -9:15 & 4:15 - 9:15 PM. Service time 56 minutes & 56 Sanford - Sand Lake. ( Note: see below about possible delays at draw bridge.
No weekend service but after observing crowds downtown Orlando and Winter Park maybe will be added.
Stations. —
a. Access to the stations were severely limited due to ongoing Sunday construction and parking lots not completely paved. All the station designs are mostly a cookie cutter approach. The station’s platforms are almost identical, fairly Spartan, and appear to be vandal resistant. there are no expensive overpasses or underpasses with the incumbent maintenance that would be required.
b. Platforms are all located on the outside of tracks with no center platform except at Sand Lake and Orlando Amtrak station. All access from the far track platform is by 3 - 5 pedestrian crosswalks across the tracks with fences between the crosswalks. Crosswalk Protection has not been completed but appears to be knee high grade crossing lights and future automatic gat
Commuter rail and light rail are really two different animals. Commuter rail, which is usually a locomotive pulling cars, usually is diesel powered and covers longer routes. The stations are usually much farther apart than light rail. Light rail is usually electric and local oriented. The electric power is more appropriate for the frequent starts and stops. Light rail usually runs more frequent headways.
CATS does have plans to add a commuter line to the Lynx system, but it is, so far, just a plan. Right now they are extending the Blue Line another 9 miles and building the Gold Line, Trolley.
Commuter rail may be a majority diesel-powered in the US, but not elsewhere. Push-pull service is also long standing, as are electric multiple units on the east coast and to the south and southeast from Chicago.
DAVE: Your points are well taken but Sun Rail seems to be a blend of both concepts. Commuter and light rail. 1. The 5 miles between Winter Park station and the Amtrak station has 6 stations including these 2 listed stations. Fares are $2.00 one way in those zones with half fares for the usual discount riders. 2. But the $2.00 fares extend from present south end of Sand lake to Linwood which is very light rail in appearance. There is also a $2.00 zone around Sanford as well with inter zone $3.00 . Do not know bus fares but seems very transit orientated. 3. The final design from Deland - south of Kissimmee will approximately double the track miles but only add 4 stations. Very Commuter alignment. 4. Anyway 6 stations in the downtown area definitely do not easily mirror normal commuter rail but light rail… 5. No Sun Rail trips terminate at the main city. What is prevalent Commuter in the US almost always terminates main city except Tri Rail ( which can be debated ) and New Mexico r
The Capital Metro Red Line in Austin, which runs approximately 32 miles from Leander, TX to downtown Austin, TX is a commuter rail service. It runs on the Austin and Western, which is a freight hauler owned by Capital Metro. The Red Line uses Stadler rail cars. It serves nine stations, including the end points in Leander and Austin.
The Denton County Transit Authority, which operates what it calls a commuter train between Denton, TX and Lewisville, TX, also uses Stadler rail cars. The route is 21 miles long and serves five stations in Denton and Lewisville. It provides connections with DART’s Green Line, which is a light rail line.
The Trinity Rail Express, which runs between Dallas and Fort Worth, is a commuter operation. It uses diesel electric locomotives and Bombardier commuter coaches in a push/pull configuration. It operates over approximately 30 miles and serves 10 stations, including the end points of the T&P Station in Fort Worth and Union Station in Dallas.
The lack of weekend service at the outset should not be a major issue. Considering that SunRail is starting from scratch, it would make a certain amount of sense to see how consistent weekday ridership pans out before weekend service is added.
The three Texas operations that I referenced don’t offer Sunday service. However, in the case of Trinity Railway Express, one can reach most of the stations served by the train on a bus. It is much slower going than by the TRE, but it can be done.
With Sun Rail starting tomorrow already there are dreams of extending it to Daytona Beach. For those not aware of history. The Volusia county leaders in the 1960 - 70s turned down a request for support of a tourist theme park as a pipe dream. Volusia actually had more land available. So it went to Kissimmee. instead.
Arrived Orlando today and all media reports showed all trains SRO jammed, Did not observe trains yet but even this first 2 days of free rides in the downpours that occurred here have not stopped riders from flocking to trains.
All trains shown were just 2 cars ( cc & coach ) + loco… Trains ended up being late due to ? Could be unfamiliarity of riding trains causing longer than planned dwell times ? Additionally due to high demand Sun Rail continued 1/2 hr schedule at mid day which left no time for schedule recovery. Schedule only requires 3 train sets ? Will try to find out why no longer trains unless equipment not yet available ?,
It will be much more useful to see what the ridership figures show when SunRail begins collecting fares. Free rides don’t indicate a realistic ridership.
absolutely agree: Did not have time to criticize reports but here are a few items and corrections now.
1. It actually takes 5 train sets to cover the present schedule. 2. Supposed to be 7 locos and 20 coaches ordered ( 10 - cabs & 10 regular coaches ? ) Do not understand why trains were not 3 & 4 car lengths except see #3 ? 3. Other threads mentioned that various pieces of equipment en route the past few weeks. It may be that all equipment has not completed acceptance causing the 2 car train sets ? 4. The boarding delays may be longer ? Also unconfirmed report that the single track draw over Saint Johns river causing problems. The temporary northern terminal at Debarry does not seem to have a location to park a spare train set ? See original post —
As well the amount of misinformation in the Orlando area is amazing – examples: 11. Initial phase has cost $ 5 B Actually construction costs are listed as $357.2 . Do not remember what CSX was paid or if construction costs include land acquisition for stations and maintenance facility? 12.&
first a few corrections. It actually takes 5 train sets to operate schedule. There were 7 locos and 20 coaches ordered. So probable maximum train size would be 3 -4 cars. Shuttle buses to / from rail stations are a combined fare so exactly how it will work is still unknown.
Now
Boardings were ~~ 10,500 + 10,800 Thursday may 1st & ~~ 10,400 + Friday May 2nd.
Regular # of trains are 32 but unknown # of extra unknown so if ~~ 40 trains that gives ~~ average of 260 boardings per run.
Seating capacity of cars unknown but if 120 / car then definitely some trains overcrowded.
Another reason for some late trains was a motorist crashed a crossing gate causing trains to be flagged thru for several hours until gate repaired.
Already calls for weekend service but the need for extra crews due to HOS is not understood.
Rode Sun Rail yesterday on scheduled 4:15 trip but first:
A few corrections of misreporting that this poster made. There probably are other items since there was too much to take in at one time.
1. Station platforms are 4 cars in length except for Amtrak stations at Downtown Orlando and Winter Park.
2. Each car capacity is 150 seated and 300 total ( which is suspect ). So 2 car train set crush capacity might be 1200 ?
3. Despite previous press releases Sun Rail is not fully double tracked. There is approximately a 3 mile section north of Winter Park to just south of Altamonte Springs that is single track. There appears to be enough ROW for double track although ROW is somewhat narrower. This single track will cause south bound delays as Altamonte is scheduled for north and south trains to meet if northbound is late. Or north bound delayed at Winter Park.
The only other single track is the 1000 feet over the St. Johns river drawbridge.
4. Signal system seemed to be operated as normal CTC not modified ABS
5. All low level pedestrian crossing signals have been installed except DeBary.
Now for the trips
11. Rail appeared to be either 136 or 141 # rail. Crossties all wood.
12. About 1/2 of passengers at Sand Lake ( present southern most station ) appeared to be one time visitors but the waiting parked cars indicated a large amount commuters waiting to return ?
13. Departed 17 late due to late arrival of train and passenger confusion about how to board. Just as we left next train arrived from north. Our Train still had a few seats
Not even an hour after posting trip report Sun Rail hit a landscaping truck. No details but reported no injuries. Well probably one piece of equipment needing some repair work ?
EDIT: Was northbound train so loco hit truck. Near Longwood station. If crossing described saw a police car there watching us pass. Passengers transferred to next train. Single tracking around accident. Sure helps to have at least one CP between each station. sometimes more.