I’m struggling to find information about switch lanterns. While they seem to be a neat little feature to add to the layout, I do not want to overdo it.
Would every switch have a lantern by era III? Probably no, but then:
Would a mainline switch normally have one? In stations?
Would branch line industry spurs be without?
A train operator, given there are no switch lanterns on the road and it is dark - would he just trust everything is set correct and keep the pedal to the metal or the switches without lanterns would be lighted by some other means, so he could see where he is going?
While at it, also on dwarf signals. What is the purpose of them and how they would be used? I understand the idea or two reds and two yellows (German signaling), but why would you need them really, when I believe there must be some kind of intercom line between operators working the yard and the yard tower, where the dispatchers, or whatever they are called could direct operators to track 3, track 12 or whatever and set the switches for them. And again, would a small branch line get dwarf signals for the clutter of its industry spurs?
Here is the track plan I’m starting to fiddle with the real pieces of track now and plan some signaling.
Here is a proof I’m out of the armchair and into business :). No time for progress thread right now, but hope to put it up some time soon.
hi, looks like you are well under way with your construction.
i should think the primariy purpose of dwarf , switch, or pot signals such as you refer to would be to protect movements on the main track. they would most likely be arragned accordingly. a dwarf or pot signal would probably be controlled by a block operator or dispatcher and interlocked to some sort of lock on the switch itself. a “high” switch with the lantern or targets serveral feet above the ground would suffice for most switches that offered access to the main track. again, they may be under the locking control of an operator. a less important switch could just have an 8 day lamp or reflector target on it but the crews operating on the main track would be under instructions to keep a eye out of the switch position and be governed accordingly. (one of my favorite railroad phrases)
in general, the more important the trains and the higher the speeds at which they run dictates the signalling used.
Back through the 50’s most US practice would have oil fired lanterns on any mainline switch that was not controlled by CTC or an Interlocking plant/ The problem was that you needed someone to clean the lens, fill the oil, and light them every evening. Reflective targets became popular in main line applications. Switches off of the main line many tines have a smaller reflective target, or nothing at all. The targets on most main line switches are mounted ‘high’(above 6’) so That the train crew can pick them out when running at track speed. Also the rules usually state that a switch on a main line needs to be aligned and locked(with a switch lock) for the main line route. In some larger yards I have seen solar cell lighted switch indicators if there is not large flood light towers to light up the operation.
I think lighted switch stand would be ‘cool’, but the only commercial ones I remember were Utah Pacific(now Tomar), and I do not see them listed anymore. IIRC, they were about $12 each over 20 years ago. I would need over $150 of them just for the main line turnouts on my layout!
Generally, any spur tracks for industries would be connected to the mainline with a turnout that had a lock on the throw mechanism, so that only a railroad worker could move the points. When not in use switching cars, they would be locked so the mainline was clear to trains.
Dwarf signals are generally used in areas like a large railway station, as a signal to engineers showing when the tracks are set for their train to leave the station. They’re not the same as turnout indicator lights, which show which way a particular switch is set.
I believe in European usage “Era III” would be the post WW2 years, roughly 1945-60(??)
I should have been clearer in my initial post - switch lanterns and dwarf signals are two different things I am asking about. Switch lanterns in this case are lighted turnout position indicators showing straight or diverging route is activated on the switch. I’m basically wondering if they are a realistic thing to have (albeit tempting) for the blue branch-line portion of the track. On the green, I’ll just put them on.
Dwarf signals is more tricky question, since the answer is obviously not only if to use them, but how to use them on my specific track plan if at all. While for the railroad with stations and single track in between, signaling for the blocks is very easy to come up with and also selecting appropriate home, distant or block signals is no problem. Also, setting up this in TrainController is a snap. When we go into switching/yard area like the blue one, we face a number of decisions to make. Is it worth having blocks there at all for signaling? Trains here will be manually operated only as opposed to the green line where passenger shuttle will have to check the route is clear, start, proceed to the next block, eventually arrive at the station and stop right at the platform etc. I’m leaning towards, no, not worth the trouble. But I still have a problem it should have some kind of signaling minimum where it enters the tunnel and this means signals, possibly dwarf on at least 5 tracks… Just thinking aloud here :).
The period you describe would cover what we call “The Transition Era”, which ran from roughly 1945 -1960, but arguments could be made about the exact start and end points. (Dieselization was just beginning in the late 1930s, but was stalled by the Depression and World War II; dieselization in earnest started after the war, on most railroads it was complete by the mid-1950s, and the last major holdouts retired their steam locomotives around 1960.)
For a discussion of era as perceived by American modelers, see this discussion.
For better or for worse, our manufacturers have not tried to define models by era.
The only places I’ve seen dwarf signals used are in old photos of the Chicago and North Western (C&NW) passenger terminal, where space is at a premium, and protecting a siding in my hometown.
To some degree the precise answer depends on the railroad you are modeling. If you are not modeling a specific prototype then my knowledge of the Santa Fe may be helpful. I am specifically modeling the Summit area of Cajon Pass in Southern California. Summit had two mainline tracks (eastbound and westbound) and a long passing siding for each. There were about 15 turnouts and every one had a lantern (kerosene I think) on a mast that also had a target on it. The swichstands on the outside of the tracks were all “high stars” which had a mast about six feet tall and a round target about 18" in diameter. There was one spot where the tracks were a little farther apart that used the high stars between the tracks. All the other switch stands that were between tracks were " ground throws" with a mast only about a foot or two high. They had a rectangular target 5" by 12". All targets are red. The lanterns had two red and two green lenses. Three light dwarf signals mounted between tracks controlled mainline traffic. In the same spot that had the high stars between the tracks there was a full size block signal. Clearly, the rule seemed to be that if space was tight between tracks the signals (dwarfs) and switch stands (ground throws) were low enough that workers could get around them safely. Another interesting signal, often called “pots”, were a version of a dwarf but they had only one light that could be either red or yellow. There function was to control exits from a siding onto the mainline. All of the details that I have discussed are illustrated well in any one of Chard Walker’s books on Cajon Pass.
Hand thrown mainline switches would usually have just a target rather than a lamp.
Branchline industry spurs would usually have just a target, but as the Road’s financial condition declined through the 1960s, some switches and derails didn’t get lost/damaged targets replaced.
On tracks with automatic block signals, hand thrown switches and derails were tied in to the signal system. In dark territory the crew could usually see the target in the glow of the headlight. On the lesser branches which were most likely to have missing targets, speeds were usually slow enough to see the position of the points in time.
It was (and is) good to keep in mind that the lamp or target might not always argee with the position of the points.
Up through the 1960s the B&O used oil lamps on most of the switches in a nearby yard. The oldest man on the track gang had the job of cleaning and filling the lamps and keeping the switches adjusted and working freely. He would do one area of the yard each day as the lamps would burn continuously for several days on one filling. Around 1969 or so, they st
This is how I indicate turnout position on my layout. I use bipolar (two color; red/green) LED’s and put them in little housings that look like a switch lantern. They are going to be on all my turnouts eventually, but right now arre on the mainline ones. The Tortisse machines operate the LED and maintain direction.
By dates. Too many things change at different times between different railroads, and with the service length of certain equipment it’s impossible to lump things into nice cleanly divided eras. Especially such a long range; American railroading in 1970 hasn’t the remotest similarity to even the 1950s.
Kerosene switch lanterns were used on manual switch stands before reflective targets so the position could be seen at night. The switch stand also had coloured metal targets below the lanterns to indicate the position by day. Switch lanterns disappeared when reflectorized paint could be applied to the targets, so that a headlight shining on them clearly showed the switch position. I think switch lamps probably died out in the late 1950s-early 1960s.
Dwarf signals are used at interlockings or control points to govern minor routes into the interlocking (e.g. a siding or secondary track connecting to a main track, or tracks running against current of traffic). Or in extremely dense passenger terminal trackage for clearance between tracks.
Any switch that has an indicator should have a lamp as well or if modern be reflectorized.
Depending on the railway there should also be different disk shapes and color combinations for different ones this varies from railway to railway
The railway I work for has round ones they are for mainline points
Square 1/2 red 1/2 green yard points The green side is where the train is going…
Square whole disk red or green on derails and trap points.
green safe to proceed Red stop or derail.
It should be noted these things are only indicators they might not be working so driver vigilance is the rule
They are not signals they do not give the driver any authority to proceed like a signal does
They only indicate which way the points are set so the driver must have a train order or be signaled into or out of a block section by the train control so he can proceed.
