My layout, The CB&Q in Wyoming, is set in the 1930-1945 timeframe, and runs all steam (plus one Doodlebug).
I love steam. I always joke that I hate diesels, but in truth I simply find them lacking in character beside steam. Some of reasons I prefer steam:
Steam is interesting to watch, with all that “monkey motion” going on around the giant drive wheels. Diesels are only mildly more interesting than a boxcar (okay, an exaggeration, but…)
Model steam sounds better. Model diesels often sound more like “white noise” or static than a real diesel, especially when they’re just running down the line. And the horn - don’t get me started on the horn!
Rolling stock was generally shorter during the steam era, meaning a train of a given length has more cars in it in the steam era than in the diesel era (that’s a generalization).
Now some of the advantages of modeling diesels:
There are a lot more decent diesel models available than there are decent steam models, at least for my prototypes (CB&Q & CNW)
High-quality diesel models are cheaper (sometimes a lot cheaper) than high-quality steam models
Like the prototype, model diesels are easier to maintain and require much less work than model steamers
Diesels are much more forgiving of trackwork irregularities than longer wheelbase steamers (not an excuse for relaxing track standards)
So I’m considering changing my era to 1945-1960. That would let me run the Burlington Blackbird scheme, which I like, and which several manufacturers produce, plus early CNW diesels (though I really don’t care for their paint scheme from any era). Most of the rolling stock would still be 40’ (or sometimes less), but a few 50’ cars would be creeping in.
I would enjoy hearing other’s perspectives on this.
I model the NYC between July '42 (my mom & dad’s wedding month & year) and July '52 (my late brother’s birth month & year). That allows me to enjoy both steam and early diesel.
Q: Why does it have to be either/or?
Steam lasted on the NYC (west of Buffalo) till '56/'57. I’m guessing CB&Q & CNW steam was probably somewhere near the same?
Couldn’t you run both steam & diesel in the '45-'60 era and adjust your locomotive roster and automobile models on your modeling whim at a given time period?
Hi Mark I model the timeframe of 1914 / 1919, The Great War. The reason is I am fascinated by that time. Not the horrors of war, but life in Britain at that time.
I also model a time frame of 1968 / 1980 diesel operation. A time when I used to travel a lot on the railways
One of my grandchildren loves running the steam engines with me; The other four run the diesels.
Scenery wise part of the layout is early 1900s, the other 1930s onwards.
Gidday Mark, in the South Island of New Zealand, as a young tacker I still remember working steam in the late1960s, and therefore give myself far more leniency to run a greater proportion of steam locomotives in my freelanced world, my cutoff date being mid-1955.
I’m basically with Tom on this. It could be both!
From an operations point of view, I’ve no idea what modelled industries on your 30-45 layout would still be valid in the 45-60s time frame, but unless your operating crew were real sticklers for accuracy, would that matter?
The same goes for the steam locomotive servicing facilities, and 1930-45 vehicles. In the few operating sessions, I’ve been involved in I’ve been far too busy running my train to get too fussy about the surrounds.
The biggest problem that I envisage, is storage space for the locomotives and rolling stock that are not appropriate, on the layout, for which ever time frame you choose to model on the day!
However, my personal concern is if the position of the Powder River Stock Yard Sweeper Upper is still valid, though I do sorrowfully note that the Management has yet to confirm whether I have gained that position!
I feel as you do, Mark, but the truth of the matter is that a steam locomotive is a lot more finicky than a diesel locomotive unless your track work is bullet proof. Now, your track work may be bullet proof, but mine isn’t. At one time, I had 24 steam locomotives on my layout, but now I am down to 3. Just too frusttrating trying to maintain a steam fleet. At one time, I had a 130’ turntable and a 9-stall roundhouse. It proved to be a nightmare. Good luck with your plan.
Mark, I had planned on an all steam layout and similarly found the number of good affordable steam locomotives left something to be desired, especially when I was initially trying to fill out my roster. (I model the New York Central, but had zero desire to renumber finished models) That, combined with an affection for F units, I slid into buying early diesels as well. In hindsight, I’m glad I did it. I still plan on expanding the steam roster moving forward, but the diesels provide some variety
When I was a lad back in the '50s the boxcars are what got me interested in trains. I would try to read all the boxcars as a train rolled by. The different railroads stirred my imagination. I never really paid attention to the engines at the time (much to my regret nowadays) but I always enjoyed the variety of boxcars.
I picked 1954, Maryland and Pennsylvania RR because it was operating small steam and diesel switchers. It was also the last year of passenger service.
I like steam, but the selection in S scale is pretty limited - I have 1 RTR and 5 kits to build. Also I have early diesel switchers SW1, NW2, SW9. None of these are currently being produced, but I do find all of these NIB at train shows from time to time.
Everything is limited in S scale, and that is a shame. I grew up in S scale with American Flyer, and I would have stayed with it but, for the most part, I couldn’t find much of anything to add to my vintage collection,
I’m much like Rich. I also grew up on American Flyer. Had there be more offerings in S-scale when I began to get serious about mrring, I might have chosen S rather than HO. Since I now have a fair number of locomotives and rollings stock in the latter…there’s no going back.
I’m living along the Lionel Lines but I do switch back and forth between standard and holiday layouts. The track stays the same, Standard Gauge and O31 3-rail, but the standard version of the layout is being developed as a semi scale or hi-rail operation depicting just one tiny interchange and servicing point surrounded by ovals for running.
Since I only own 3 steam locomotives that are anything close to 20th century prototype, an 0-8-0, a Dreyfuss Hudson and a Lionel Lines Pennsy 2-6-4 (I know), and one CN GP-7 and one short Pennsy GG-1, there isn’t a lot for me to worry about. But I’ve decided to keep the standard or summer version limited to around 1940, at least as far as the scenery is concerned.
I just really love old photos of bucolic whistle stops from the late steam era. So when I went looking to replace my Plasticville buildings with scratch built semi scale O gauge structures I chose to model the interchange depot of the NKP and the Cincinnati Northern at Latty, Ohio. It has classic style that I like and will fit well with my vision for a quiet (ish) small town interchange.
So modelling in the larger scales on a small 5 x 7 floor layout changed my perspective quite a bit from previous layouts I’ve built. But at the moment it’s the best I can do in a one bedroom apartment. I will create landscaping but at the moment I’m not 100% sure what I’m going to use and how I can keep it removable and easy to store.
As you can see the larger holiday layout is 100% a toy land town around the Christmas tree!
Mark, when I first started my interest in MRR back in the late 70’s/early 80’s I saw a Model Railroader issue that talked about the various scales. But what caught my eye was they used several EMD diesels in the CBQ and BN livery as examples. It was then I was smitten with BN/CBQ. I could use the black CBQ, the Chinese Red CBQ and the BN. And even some Great Northern as well. So I model the BN in the same year as the merger, with much time license. I later became a fan of Santa Fe so when the time came to start my layout in my new basement in the late 90"s I envisioned an interchange point (classification yard) where all motive power could be found. Again, modelers license but I always refer to “Rule #1”.
On my prototypes, they dieselized the area I model (Casper Division CB&Q, & the end of the CNW Cowboy line) fast. By the mid-1950’s, there were essentially no steamers to be found anywhere around here.
I would probably sell off most of my steamers to finance the dieselization. Other than one or two steamers, I would completely change over, because running a mix would give me the worst of both worlds - high-maintenance on the steamers and the comparative horrible sounds of the diesels. With just diesels the sound probbaly wouldn’t be so horrible given time to get used to it.
I have to admit, I’ve not experienced the apparently huge troubles or overly high maintenance with steamers that is being mentioned. Lucky? Maybe, but I don’t tend to think of myself as lucky. Happily running toward a cliff like a Lemming? Maybe. I’m curious what the troubles are you are experiencing that is pushing you toward diesels.
If you continue to feel like diesel is the way to go for you, I would suggest you buy a diesel or two (maybe an A/B F unit set) with good decoders in them and run them for a while before you make a final decision. I would hate to see you let go of those beautiful steam locos you have only to regret it when listening to the drone of the diesels traversing your mainline. Lowing the volume on the diesels will help some with that though. Adding a couple sound cars into your trains might as well.
When I joined the hobby and this forum, about the same time in Jan '05, I soon decided that I wanted to model the most advanced steam until it went cold on the Canadian Pacific in 1960. By then, there were scads of diesels everywhere. So, I had to begin to acquire the odd second generation diesel, some first. And I have, and I enjoy running all of it. Modeling is meant to be ‘representation’. If we want to model, and not just collect and run whatever we collect, then it seems reasonable to show fidelity to what was extant at the time. I still love steam, and buy 3 steamers for every diesel since about 2015 (after the bulk of my steam purchases were done by then). But, I do enjoy running diesels. I even have several SD-70 variants, so I ‘allow’ the odd fantasy run now and then.
I find full-size steam locomotives far more interesting that diesels. In model form though, for me at least, they’re not more interesting, just different. When operating on a layout locomotives don’t capture my attention the way they do standing next to them at trackside, and much of the time on my small layout I’m switching and not even looking at the loco. I’ve never felt a desire to model the steam era in the US, but I do find UK steam appealing.
If any MR staff reads this, I’d be interested in a 25 year retrospective from Tony Koester where he talks about the reliability, performance, and maintenance on his Nickel Plate steam fleet, and compare it to the all-diesel AM. Availability of steam models was part of his decision to switch to the Nickel Plate, and I’m curious if he feels that it was worth it.
Or from anyone else who’s been running a large steam fleet for years.
The steamers require attention to the valve gear on occasion, and the model mechanisms are much more prone to get out of whack than the simpler diesel mechanisms. Lead trucks (and sometimes trailing trucks) seem to need adjustment periodically or they can become troublesome (read: start derailing far too frequently). This is especially true of older brass.
It’s not huge troubles per se, but to keep a steamer operating well requires much more attention than a diesel. Quite often brand new steam needs some tweaking right out of the box to perform acceptably (admittedly my performance standards are quite high).
As I said in another forum, why not slowly move the era forward and start by introducing diesel switchers for the yard and E8s for a few passenger trains.
Bowser makes a nice running and sounding Baldwin switcher. Not sure about roadnames.
I love modeling the transition era. It is 1954 here on the ATLANTIC CENTRAL, I think it is one of the best eras in railroad history.
As for model steam locos, even with 36" radius and larger curves, I avoid long rigid wheelbase steam and most of my passenger cars are “selectively compressed”.
I freelance and I model C&O, B&O and WESTERN MARYLAND. I am not overly fussy about “total prototype accuracy”. I have actually had really good success with medium priced steam like Bachmann Spectrum and their regular line newer offerings.
Ironically, I have had the most problems with the brand I own the least of, Broadway Limited.
I only have a few pieces of brass…
Most of my diesels are older Proto2000, Intermountain, Bowser and Athearn/Genesis. They all run great, they all run on DC (full voltage pulse width modulated DC).
