I am currently refinishing a group of passenger cars for my NYC consist.
I want to put an LED in the rear of my observation car. There is a molded in housing for a light at the top center and two smaller ‘markers’ one on each side.
Does anyone know what colors these lights should be? I am leaning toward ‘red’ for the large center one and white for the two smaller ones on each side. I want to install the wiring, LEDs and perhaps a decoder to control the lighting, before I proceed with weighting and assembly.[banghead]
Most videos I’ve seen of that type passenger car indicate that the two side marker lights are red and the center is a larger, rotating red beacon. If the center light were low, it would have been a drumhead with the train’s name and logo with a white light.
The smaller lamps are called ‘markers,’ and are required (by rule) to show red to the rear unless the train is in the clear on a siding - unlikely for a train with a full observation car!
The high mounted large light was a duplicate of the gyratory lights sometimes mounted on locomotives, but with a red lens. Not all railroads used them.
When tailing off a named train, there would almost always be a ‘drumhead’ centered below the rear windows, white lights behind a translucent panel with the railroad’s herald or the train’s logo painted on, rather like a store window advertising sign box.
I used a red 3mm LED in mine for that center light. It took some careful drilling and carving to get the hole just right and centered. I glued the LED in with “Goop”.
I consider myself fortunate to have a wiring diagram for the NYC Creek and Brook series observation cars. It is true that some railroads, notably Burlington and other Western roads used a Gyralite or Mars light in the center of the observation car roof the NYC used this lamp as a back-up light and it was white.
The marker lights on each side were normally red to the rear there was a lever accessed from inside the car that could change this to yellow when rules dictated that the train was in a siding. I can assure you that the Century was rarely, if ever, in a siding to allow an approaching train to pass on the main, but it was part of the design anyway.
Most observation cars had provisions for the brakeman or flagman to position himself at the rear of the car for a back-up move and there was a brake and signal valve there in a cubby-hole or under an access panel and sometimes there was a back-up whistle, too. I don’t know of any time that any of the NYC trains had to make much of a back-up move since the trains were towed backwards from Mott Haven into GCT by a S-1 electric. Perhaps in Chicago the trains were backed some distance into La Salle St. Station and this back-up light would have been used.
I have seen photos of Hickory Creek and Sandy Creek with the white center light on. I can’t imagine that it provided much light as the drawing shows only a 75 watt lamp in there!
I used fiber optic tubing to light my markers. Every other option was too large to fit in the housing. Kato does a beautiful job on their HO business car but their marker shows green to the front. Maybe some were like this but most of the streamlined teardrop markers either used a colored roundel behind the lens OR had two separate lamps in the housing for red or yellow…
Are you sure about NYC using yellow to the side and front on their markers? I know that PRR, N&W, Santa Fe, and (maybe) D&RGW did but I thought that everybody else used green. Unfortunately I don’t have access to a NYC rule book but if you’re sure of it I’ll revise my list of yellow users.
I willingly admit, I’m not familiar with passenger train rules and such so my thoughts are just that-- thoughts on the missing marker lights. After enlarging the the photo, it appears that it is waiting for service-maintenance. Did passenger trains have their marker lights removed when not in service on a train like a caboose on a freight? I know that some railroads had just a single red “tail-light” and no markers on their cabooses during the last days of cabooses. Could this be the same for passenger trains. Also could this particular car in the photo be a business car not in use? It appears the windows are covered over and something is wrapped around the railings on the rear deck. Ken
Thanks for the input guys. I have several photos of SS NYC Observation cars. Some show the top mounted light and others a smaller light mounted down lower. The markers are not always clear however.
I decided on a 3mm red LED for the top center light. I think I will let the side markers go for now with just green painted lenses. If I have to, the red LED can easily be changed to white or any other appropriate color.
I have everything, including the interior light, wired to the truck pick-ups for now. I still haven’t decided if I will use a decoder for effects. Probably no purpose, since the NYC didn’t use the gyra-light.
I’ll post photos when I get the consist finished. Probably too late for SNPF this week. Maybe next.
I have checked my references and it is a fact that NYC used yellow for the alternate color on markers. Rules for the Government of the Operating Department, September 26, 1937 shows yellow to the side. Both markers are turned to yellow when the train is in the clear on a siding. The red would be facing inward.
If the train is running against the current of traffic the outside marker would show red while the marker on the side of the other track would be yellow.
I also refered to my NYC drawing N-55105 of June 23, 1948 showing the wiring diagram for Creek series, Lot 2194 5 D. Br. Lounge Observation showing Yellow on top and Red on the bottom of the markers (two lamps inside the bullet shaped housing) and the WHITE back-up light is only 25 Watt!
Hope this helps… wish I had a way to post photos! I’ll have to learn how to do that!
Talk about a day late and a dollar short!!! I went into Spokane today (Sun 18th) for the semi-annual swap meet and what did I find on a memorabilia table but a marker w/ an embossed NYC herald on the base and 1 red and 3 amber lenses! Now how to I retract the posts I put on the forum w/ only the previous listed 4 yellow using RRs?
i think a large centered tailight was an option for the Railroad.
SP’s Daylight used theirs as a backup light and it was clear. The ex NP tail car (now on the privately run Daylight excursion) is constant red.
The Cal Zephyr supposedly used a gyrating feflector in their Observation. Whether is was red, or clear, is not sure, but some RR’s kept it off, presumably the Rio Grande. (The train was a combined effort of CB&Q, D&RGW, and WP). Each had their own ‘rules’. In any case it culd be turned on and off.
On the other hand rearward red marker lights were mandated by the goverment, as were Oscillating headlights, and ditchlights, today.
Illiminated Drumheads were placed on the tail car to I.D.the train to boarding passengers. 1. Passenger often started their journeys boarding from the rear. 2. Train platforms/sheds were often dark 3. or at nightime 4. sometimes trains departed within a half-hour of each other 5. on side by side tracks.
I haven’t done anything with the markers yet, though I do have two flat LEDs in red that could be mounted. The center light is at the top of the car in a streamlined mounting. For now it is red and looks cool in the dark.
I made my own drumhead marker for this car. I have a picture, from the Fallen Flags website, of several observation cars, from the NYC named trains taken in Chicago in 1948-9 which shows the several versions of observation cars and the rear lighting.
My drumhead is semi-generic as it says simply “New York Central System”. I made it with my home computer and lighted it from inside the car. If the photo caption is right, this drumhead was used on the ‘Wolverine’ which is one of the trains I run on the BRVRR.
Again, thanks guys. I thought you might like to see a photo or two of the observation car in question.
The first one was taken at ‘night’ in the BRVRR train room.
This one was taken in ‘daylight’ trying to get a better image of the drumhead. It is so small it doesn’t show up too good here and I couldn’t get my camera to focus any closer.
Still no markers but I think the ‘tail light’ is great!
