I recently put together a Proto 2000 10K gallon riveted tank car. (My 5th since I got into the hobby). They are always good for 5-6 hours of assembling entertainment.
My question is two-fold about tankers in the steam/early diesel era:
Was there a particular placement or arrangement prototypes put their tankers in a train?
When did the side diamond-shaped safety markers come into existence, as pictured in Dr. Wayne’s photo below? (The one that I have has the markers only along the sides.)
I can’t say for sure, but I think that current-day regulations probably require a “spacer” car (non-tank car) between the loco and any tank cars, and I recall reading that there was something similar for cabooses when they were still in use. I’ve seen WWII-era photos of trains with tank cars directly behind the loco, and a quick google search yielded this footage (the first clip is the only one pertinent to your question). I’d say, too, that the clip is from the '60s or '70s, based on the diesels.
I also found this, which means that my tank car in your photo is incorrect, as I’m modelling the '30s. [:$][banghead] The placards came with the kit, so I used 'em - I was so happy to find a number of these cars for about five bucks apiece that I never gave much thought to the relevance of the placards. I re-lettered mine, mostly using dry transfers from C-D-S (the car shown) or Champ decals. Evidently, the release of r-t-r versions of these Proto tank cars made the kits less popular, and, since most were originally lettered for American owners, slow movers on the shelves of my LHS. [swg] I did replace the grabirons and steps with metal parts, though - the plastic ones were kind of bulky, and not too easy to handle, either.
Spacer cars needs to be used if the tank car is carrying hazardous material also tank cars carrying hazardous material can not be placed at the end of a train or next to a occupied car(passenger,camp cars,caboose etc).Tank cars carrying none hazardous material may be placed behind the locomotive consist.
Also empty hazardous material tank cars must not be place next to the locomotives or occupied car.
Thanks for the reply. As I said this is my 5th Proto 2000 tanker and - much like yourself - I still prefer putting them together from a kit. I learn more about the prototype that way.
Wow! $5 a piece for them is a great price, Wayne! I’ve found some older Proto 2000 50’ boxcar kits at my LHS for as little as $8 but never $5. I’d snatch those up in a hurry - i.e. as long as they fit my era.
Yea, it wasn’t until this time around that it hit me, “Are these safety placards too modern for what I’m modeling?”. Since they mount on the bottom side of the car frame, at least they are simple to remove and won’t leave behind a noticeable scar.
I thought about replacing the supplied grab irons, steps, and ladders with metal ones but went ahead an installed the plastic ones. You’re right, though. Even with tweezers, you have to be very careful about handling them. I did lose a couple of grab irons during the assembly process. Thankfully, Proto 2000 supplies a couple of extra with their kits - just in case. [Y][8D]
Thanks for the reply. Do you know if that was also the case back in the 20s-40s? It makes sense. However, I know that some safety issues didn’t get incorporated until later - usually after some disaster.
Replace “tank car” with “Any car handling dangerous commodities”.
A boxcar could be handling dangerous commodities like explosives or gas canisters. Many tank cars carry commodities no more dangerous than vegetable oil, corn syrup, tallow, or fuel oil (bunker oil or home heating oil is not considered a hazardous commodity).
Hazardous cars should be about half a dozen cars away from an occupied engine, caboose, coach, boarding car etc., where practicable. In no case should the dangerous car be right next to the engine or caboose, unless the entire train is made up of dangerous cars. (Modern unit train moves with typically add a random non-dangerous empty car as a buffer between the engines and train.) Explosive and poisonous cargoes should not be placed next to each other in a train.
Hazmat laws require that certain cars carrying hazardous material loads be no closer than the 6th car from the engine, caboose or passenger car in a train.
There are also certain types of cars that can’t be next to certain types of cars carrying hazmat and certain hazmat commodities can’t be next to other cars loaded with other hazmat commodities.
Not all tank cars contain hazmat. Not all placarded cars are subject to the restrictions.
For example the car in the picture says it could be either gasoline or coal oil. If its gasoline that would have a flammable liquid placard and in the modern day woutd require cover. If it contains coal oil it would probably have a combustible liquid placard and in the modern day woutd not require cover, actually it could used AS cover even though its a loaded, placarded tank car.
Prior to the 1960’s the hazmat rules were much less restrictive and probably had very few if any placement restrictions. Over the last 3 or 4 decades the hazmat rules have gone from a single page of instructions to 25 pages and two color fold outs of instructions.
The placard on the car looks like a pre 1960’s or 1970’s one. if that’s the case there probably were no placement restrictions only instructions to keep fire and flame away. At most it would say it couldn’t be next to an engine, caboose or working heater car.
When I first heard about requiring spacers between loaded cars with explosive/inflammable lading what I was told was, `five safe cars between the hazardous lading and any locomotive or occupied (by people) car. IIRC, the tender was counted if it DIDN’T have a brakeman’s doghouse.
An exception was allowed if the entire train consisted of nothing but hazardous cars - hence those WWII era tank unit trains - or if there weren’t enough cars in the train, in which case the minimum became two safe cars.
Chuck (Modeling Central Japan in September, 1964 - handling hazmat according to rule)
Thanks to all who have provided additional info on the prototype. [:)]
Of the sixteen tank cars I have in service, all have placard holders, but only three display placards. The one shown in the first post of this thread reads “DANGEROUS” in red lettering, with the smaller lettering illegible even under a loupe. This Sun Oil tanker has a similar set of placards:
However, the third car, another Imperial Oil tanker, is apparently loaded with something “CORROSIVE”. Perhaps it’s a load of the stinging criticism I deserve for not paying closer attention. [banghead][:$][(-D]
I haven’t seen rules like that before the 1970s, only post 1970’s. The current rules read that the hazmat car has to be the 6th car from the engine or occupied caboose train length permitting, but in no case closer than the 2nd car from the engine or caboose. The "spacers’ or “cover” cars are actually called “buffers” in the rules. The use of "inflammable’ also dates the instructions to pre-1970’s. That always amused me when people used "inflammable " to mean something that burns. The prefix “in” mean not (as insolvent means not solvent, insincere means not sincere, etc) so asbestos should be inflammable and gasoline flammable.
Hazmat was called "Dangerous’ cargo then, hazmat wasn’t even a term until the last 50 years or so. Dangerous car rules were promogulated by the Bureau of Explosives, a division of the AAR. The ICC adopted most of the BOE’s rules.
The WW2 tank car trains were most likely crude oil and so didn’t require any cover then and wouldn’t require any cover now. The worst they would be is combustilble and that’s not a restricted commodity. You can put all the fuel oil, lube oil, etc. you want in the train , its not considered a “hazmat”.
I really appreciate all the input so far, fellas. With all this said, would diamond-shaped placards have been found on riveted tankers pre-1950? (Or, at the latest 1960.) For my layout I would mainly be modeling them for diesel fuel (for my fueling facility) and possibly gasoline. Thanks.
Quite coincidently, I was paging through some back issues of “Mainline Modeler” from January 1993by John Ryckowski.
The first placards were in 1921 and lasted until 1960. There were four placards, Explosives, Poison, Inflammable and Poison. In 1930 Corrosive liquids and Compressed Gases was added.
The modern placards were first used in the 1960 and updated in 1974.
From my observations, it appears most (or possibly all) model manufacturers only started putting placards (not to be confused with placard holders) on tankcars a few years ago. Even after the trend toward superdetailed cars started, it seems like most tankcars still did not have placards.
FYI: You have “Poison” mentioned twice. What was the 4th type?
So, for clarification: The small side and front placards (pictured in the original post) would have been found on the prototype from 1921-1960? Thanks.
According to the info in the second link which I posted earlier, the placards would have been in black lettering on a white background, and would have been one of the four types mentioned by Dave.
I’ll be re-doing mine, but probably only with a bit of black paint. [swg] Jaeger HO products makes placards for many freight cars, but not, as far as I’m aware, for tank cars.
These include “DO NOT HUMP”:
“UNLOAD OTHER SIDE”:
…and “UNLOAD THIS SIDE”, although, so far, crews have been spotting these cars as required, so no picture. [(-D]
