i’m curious what general guidance there is to more efficiently switch
i was surprised to see someone with little switching experience switch cars by picking cars up at the end of their 8 car train instead of uncoupling the loco and leaving the train on the mainline and handling just a few cars at a time.
how would you explain basic switching to someone who has never done it before or has seen it done?
I have been involved in switching type operations on about a dozen layouts for the last 25 years - off and on.
Every layout is different. Every layout owner sees operation differently. Every person who “designs” a switch list system for this operation creates at list part of the desired “method” as a combination of track plan and switch list complexity.
Sometimes it is desired, indicated or necessary to pick up/setout cars in a particular order or position in the train - sometimes not.
“Best method” seems hard to define in an abstract situation.
Are we talking about trains with cabooses? Will the dispatcher allow the main to be blocked for long periods? Is there other traffic to be concerned with? Is there a run around track?
My operational plan has very little switching on the mainline, most is on three industrial areas separate from the mainline. But I switch both individual cars and larger blocks of cars to large industries.
If it gets the job done, must be ok.
Sheldon
i think the basics are:
when picking up cars on the facing spur that need to be coupled to the back of the train, should the loco put the caboose in front of it so that it remains at the back of the train when those cars are added to the train?
the complication in this situation was that there is a string of MT hoppers that need to be swapped for a string a loaded hoppers at a colliery
would you separate the hoppers from the train while switching the freight cars?
I would use the caboose as a handle to stack pick ups at the back of the train as it moved down the line.
You can break up the train by leaving the back or front portions of it on the mainline (or the runaround) so you can access cars in the middle, and can use the other half of the train as a handle.
All good strategies but they make various assumptions about track arrangements.
Sheldon
Do hoppers not count as freight cars to you?
If you’re not running a dedicated “unit” train just for the mine, there’s no reason to treat the coal hoppers any differently.
i thought it odd to be moving a strings of 5 hopper cars while switching box cars. i’ve just left them on the main, finding it easier to move a smaller # of cars
i took lance Mindheim suggestion to heart. It’s not the # of spurs, it’s the # of spots. so each of my spurs often serves seveal industries. My one town has 3 spurs with 7 spots
Why would that be “odd”?
Boxcars, gondolas, hoppers, flatcars, tank cars…
No difference.
because the siding is a bit short with all the cars pulled, none spotted and the hoppers still on the train. some day, thecolliery may be a separate job
in general, i thought it better to just be dealing with a smaller # of cars.
OK, so it’s not about the types of cars, but the amount of work + track space.
Surely you’d move the empty hoppers out as a block, and switch the loaded hoppers in as a block, if you had the track capability to do so.
of course. but when?
i saw him pull all the cars that needed to be pulled, including the loaded hoppers, and then begin spotting cars. He didn’t do the MT hoppers first.
If I (as a non-railroader with a pathological aversion to 'switching problems) were doing this, I’d work the various single-car sidings first, down to where the loaded block would be in logical order to be dropped. I would then pull the empty hoppers and place the loaded ones, with the added possibility of using the empty hopper string to reach into any sidings with lighter track or that could not safely take the weight of the engine.
I think I have my loadeds and empties backwards. He would obviously have to pull ‘what’s there’ before spotting ‘what’s going in’; I think the essential point is the same EXCEPT braking that cut of full hoppers (in real life) would likely require much more care than the empties would.
Some if his pickups would be loads and some would be empties, so he might choose to ‘live with’ all the potential hand-braking. As you note this might be to pull all the cars going out before starting to place any of the ones in the train… if there is enough track or lead space to accommodate them as ‘spaced out’ to allow access. There might well be need – even assuming the cars have been made up in ‘easiest order’ to be distributed – to alternate pulling and placing cars. That might become very significant it the job involves crossing the active main(s) from leads.
The theoretical considerations begin to look like a switching problem. I HATE switching problems.
That seems very unlike you.
From a prototype perspective back in the day of full crews and cabooses.
Is the local freight a turn or out one day, back the next? Is the station being worked an intermediate station or the turning point for the local?
If the local is a turn working an intermediate point, they probably would work the trailing point spurs on each leg. If it’s an out one day, back the next, the facing point spurs may not be worked until the return trip the next day. Cars for the facing point spurs would be carried through to return the next day. That depends on the industry being worked and the priority level of the freight being worked. Locals would try to do as much work as possible off the head end.
If a facing point spur would need to be switched, the prototype in years gone by, would “drop” cars as needed to get the cars on the proper side of the engine. Something that’s not usually possible with models.
The working agreements called for trains to be originally made up in station order. That is cars for the first station are next to the engine, cars for the next station second out and so on. Most switch engines at the originating yard will place cars in that order, but wouldn’t probably not group cars by industry. The local would either have to reblock cars, probably at the first station, or just work each station as they came to it.
I could see handling the coal in a separate move, or at least working the coal last. Holding onto empty hoppers wouldn’t be as much ad an issue versus holding onto loads, depending on how many loads involved. On the models, unless using live coal loads, a loaded hopper isn’t heavier than a loaded box car. On the prototype the coal loads are probably going to be the heaviest cars being handled. It’s going to affect stopping and, depending on where they are in the cut being handled, controlling slack action. You don’t want to bounce off a brakeman riding the end of the cut or break a knuckle while switching.
At the end of the day, prototype or model, moves made are going to be done at the convenience of the conductor.
Jeff
Always learn from the “rounder” conductors. They didn’t get that way from doing extra work.
Even when I was very small, I’d read about the switching problems and get a headache – not just because of their contrived difficulty but because I couldn’t figure out why they were supposed to be ‘fun’.
I did not like the game of bridge, or the numerical puzzle sudoku, either. But to this day, I don’t like even the thought of a switching problem…
Gasp, you don’t like Sudoku? 