The least I can do you guy’s are teaching me so much thank you.
Chuck
While the tower may have been built upon spindly steel work may have swayed in the wind - but I am sure the floors were very cold during the Winter with it being open to the weather on the bottom.
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Thank you for your posts. The Big Four brings in Louisville is still standing and part of the water front park.
My interest is the Milwaukee Road’s terminus in Westport indiana … which I yet to find as the town is clueless regarding railroads. But I’ll keep plugging away until I find it.
TAG
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That should bridges not brings my apologies for the typo. TAG
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Have you contacted Paula Simpson at Indiana Transportation History?
Rich
Welcome on board, Goldsmith.
David
It is great to see to see those old bridges still standing, wherever they are. Marvels of engineering!
Rich
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Welcome to the forum Goldsmith!!
Chuck
Rich, No I have not. But I do have some free time to contact him. Thank you very much for the lead. Have a blessed day. TAG
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Yes, there are two folks at Indiana Transportation History, Paula Simpson and Jim Grey, who seem pretty knowledgeable of railroading throughout Indiana, and their resource data base seems to be quite extensive. Let us know if they are able to help you.
Rich
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Does anyone have a photo of a Big Four steam locomotive with the railroad’s name, Cleveland, Cincinnati, Chicago and St. Louis Railway, on the tender? All of the photos that I find use the New York Central lettering.
Rich
Well you dun good, Chuck.
And a lettered caboose, no less.
Excellent, and thank you.
Rich
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You are welcome Rich and you are right everything is New York Central.
Chuck
Rich if i’m reading my book right now ,The Big Four is only listed with The New York Central, it reads that the Central retained the Big Four in 1914 but it kept it’s identities relatively late, I think that’s why we can only find tenders the the Central name on them . That would be my guess.
Chuck
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Cleveland’s first lakefront union depot was built in 1854 and Abraham Lincoln passed through there on his way to his inauguration in 1861.
During his presidency, the all wood depot burned to the ground and was replaced with the union depot that survived almost 100 years. Built of limestone quarried in Berea, Ohio, it was the largest open space under one roof in America.
Abraham Lincoln’s funeral train arrived while this depot was under construction.
In later years the roof was removed and replaced with more common umbrella sheds in the coach yards.
After the completion of the new Cleveland Union Terminal the majority of the railroads serving Cleveland moved out of the old Depot in 1930. Only the Pennsylvania Railroad soldiered on in the ancient concourse until 1953, of course refusing to move to a Terminal majority owned by their biggest competitor: the NYC. The old Union Depot was torn down in 1959, just 5 years shy of it’s 100th anniversary.
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Still got my ticket but I missed the train. Darned thing left three years before I was born!
Last Ticket Issued By PRR in Cleveland by Edmund, on Flickr
Cheers, Ed
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I’ve heard that there was a billboard across the street from the old Union Depot begging travelers not to “judge Cleveland by the condition of the station” they just arrived at.
Which brings up a question I’ve never found an answer to: who owned the Depot? The new C.U.T. was a corporate entity in and of itself under the Van Sweringens with the New York Central holding the majority interest, and after 1930 the C.U.T. corporation was responsible for the condition of the facilities the tenant railroads used. (Obviously there was rent and usage fees that helped with the upkeep.)
But I don’t know if the Pennsylvania Railroad actually owned the old Union Depot. Was it owned by the city of Cleveland? Anybody know?
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I believe the PRR did own the land and the depot building. They may have had to ‘buy out’ the other occupant, the New York Central when they moved operations to the new C.U.T. in 1931.
This aerial shot has a great view including the Union depot areas. The Pennsy coach yard was on the north (lake) side of the NYC main line. Train congestion in this area must have been severely bottlenecked! Keep in mind, too, that the old Cuyahoga River swing bridge was a gauntlet, effectively a single track railroad and it was shared with the Pennsylvania who had one track which accessed their ore docks on Whiskey Island. Some references say the Depot was renamed to Pennsylvania Station in 1946. I’d have to confirm that.
Cleveland Cuyahoga River mouth looking southeast by Edmund, on Flickr
This view is looking west from under the W. 3rd. St. bridge. Union depot can be seen in the distant left along with a small crowd of passengers. Tes, the area must have looked like a vast wasteland to arriving passengers.
PRR_Cleveland_Union_Lakefront by Edmund, on Flickr
The freight on the right is on the NYC (LS&MS) main line. Cuyahoga swing bridge out of view about a half-mile distant.
I’ll get a crop ot that aerial photo to get a closer look at the Union Depot.
Cheers, Ed
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