I think I have a very legitimate reason for complaining about high prices, and so does every other Canadian. With the current exchange rate at somewhere around $0.75 per US dollar, shopping for anything coming from south of the border has become prohibitively expensive, at least for me. In 2013 the Cdn dollar was at par, so we have suffered an increase of about 33% including shipping fees in just two years. That BB freight car kit on eBay is now pushing $25 Cdn. Ouch![banghead][soapbox]
In 1989 I was able to buy dozens of Athearn Blue Box transition era freight cars for $3.00 each. This translates to $5.37 each in today’s dollars. $5.37 would be just fine with me, if Blue Box kits were available, they’re not. What has replaced Athearn’s Blue Box kits are their RTR freight cars priced from $14.99 to $35.99 (M.B. Klein prices). This price increase is not due to inflation; but due to the fact that the majority of model railroaders today desire highly detailed and fragile cars; but, are unwilling to build them from kits! I’m not picking on Athearn, only using them as an example. This demand for highly detailed, fragile and high priced RTR freight cars is pretty much across the board for the manufacturers of these products.
Assembling an Athearn Blue Box kit was very simple to do. Adding details too or even super detailing them was pretty easy to do, also!
I see that the reality is; we have demanded these products from our model railroad equipment suppliers! So, we are responsible for the high cost of the hobby and have no one to blame, but ourselves. So, when you complain about high prices, the person to blame is the guy in the mirror!
At the model train show in Davenport Iowa this weekend (a very nice show by the way) I saw plenty of cheap trains, if one is willing to accept something less than the standards and technology of today. Certainly for nearly no money at all one could bring home bags full of interesting and worthy “projects.”
Pumping old prices through inflation calculators does not tell the whole story either. There was a lot of bad stuff for sale back then, such as the Athearn knock-offs from Crown (imported by Mantua, but they were careful to keep their name off th stuff) that sold for 99 cents each – and then always needed new trucks, new couplers, and more weight. When all the smoke had cleared you paid more than you would have for the genuine Athearn article.
And back when I was a Pennsy modeler, while it is true that there was a ton of Pennsy lettered stuff available about 90% of it was not Pennsy whatever.
We were discussing this on another site. Nickel Silver, Atlas Flex was about $.79 a section in 1983. It is now about $6.39 (retail). That’s a 809% increase! Folks, that’s not all inflation. We speculated that the price might have to do with the increased cost of materials like the Nickel Silver used in electronic gadgetry and the petroleoum in the plastic. Anyone know for sure? Laying track for a multi-level, double-track helix is a major cost even if you can get the track discounted.
With locos and cars we received more for our buck with improvements and add-ons since 1983. But if Chinese labor has held the cost down on the track, I wonder what it would be without it???
Victor Baird
Fort Wayne, Indiana
This was the original post in the now deleted thread, which I thought was a bit unfair because the OP made some valid points.
One, if you are laying a lot of track for a large layout, be prepared for sticker shock. 100 pieces of Atlas Code 83 flex track will set you back $400. If I rebuilt my current layout from scratch, flex track alone would approach $1,000.
Two, if the price reflects Chinese labor costs, imagine what the cost would be if manufactured here in the good ole USA.
Over the weekend, I needed 6 pieces of Atlas Code 83 flex track, so I made a 60 minute round trip to the closest LHS. It cost $5.50 per stick before tax.
Sure, this notion has been repeated many times before, but every time someone buys something like flex track and hasn’t had to do it in quite a while, it is sticker shock revisited. I thought Victor’s thread deserved better treatment than it got.
I can sympathize with your predicament re. the rate of exchange, but that has to be blamed on factors that have nothing to do with the model railroad hobby.
I was being a little bit tongue in cheek. I agree that the change in prices north of the border has nothing to do with corporate decisions in the hobby.
Still, regardless of the cause, my costs have gone up so, for the most part, I have stopped buying.
The up side is that if I want to sell anything I have the option of offering fairly low prices to our friends to the south.
Yes, some of the products are better than they used to be.
Yes, the middle class has seen their income decline.
Yes, the Chinese workers want a decent wage so prices go up.
BUT
You can still go to train shows and get Athearn and Roundhouse/MDC kits for $5.
You can buy economy line cars and structures from Accurail, Model Power, etc.
You can still scratchbuild for cheap - go read some E.L. Moore articles for ideas.
You can still buy one locomotive, a few cars, a couple of turnouts, and a few pieces of flextrack and be in business - search Inglenook layouts on the 'net.
AND
This is still the greatest hobby going.
Just go slow if you have to - I had years where a sub to MR was all I could afford.
Have fun - this is a hobby, it doesn’t have to be a contest.
I think the idea of this thread is a good one. I think Steve Otte’s idea of bringing all the fragmented threads on this one topic, to one place is a great answer to this re-occuring problem. Putting the sticky on it is the cherry on top.
I think this thread is a good idea because it will be a help to some to blow off steam (yes, pun intended), discuss, or learn from it.
It is definately a ‘hot’ topic, and as far as im concerned, a very important one facing the hobby now. And as such, it needs to be discussed. This (MR - the leading magazine for our industry) is exactly, thee place to do that.
Again, props to MR for recognizing this and relaxing a few constraints to make this happen.
I think using train shows and swap meets as a way to find less expensive equipment is true and a good way to save some money for some. However, they don’t work for everyone! Those people who live where train shows and swap meets occur, talk like saving money at them is a simple matter of just going to them and it is, if you live in the larger population centers where a train show; or, swap takes place, I don’t!
I go to the ones I know about, when I hear they are scheduled. The closest one is about 130 miles away. So, now I need to figure in the cost of driving round trip to the swap and maybe overnight accommodations as a part of the cost of attending these shows. This certainly does offset any money I save at the show. That means before I even go to the show, I would be better off buying five to six Accurail kits and calling it a day, from a cost stand point!
Over time all the cheap kits sold at train shows and swaps will simply stop showing up! They will eventually all have been built. Because inexpensive kits are only built by a handful of manufacturers anymore, the kits will eventually cease to exist.
I look at this all from a model builder’s standpoint. This hobby, is for me, about building models, not buying RTR! As a builder of models, I am a dinosaur and what dinosaurs need, no longer matters!
Bingo! Far to many modelers have champaign taste with a beer pocket book.
IMHO they would be much happier if they realized they can’t really afford that Godzilla size basement filling layout and build a layout they can afford…Bigger is not always better.
One of the cheapest layouts to build is a shelf ISL since you need a handful of switches and some flex track.1-3 locomotives and around 48 cars. 48 cars is a minimum number needed for a well balance rotation of cars—that rotation is needed so you don’t switch the same set of cars…
Don’t like to switch? Then build a loop layout that fits your budget and not one that you can’t afford to build.
Instead of complaining about the prices find ways to cut costs by buying use,shop the Internet hobby shops,use e-Bay and attend train shows and look for the better prices by taking your time instead of rushing through things.
Why are there so many on this thread that bad-mouth the ones that don’t like the pricing? Start your own thread and leave us alone! A lot of us can afford pretty much whatever in the hobby, but we choose to not be sucked in to spending what I think are astronomical prices for a hobby.
I’ll keep modeling in my frugal ways and no one is going to tell me otherwise. Or how wrong I am.
My solution to high retail prices for hobby purchases is to attend swap meets at regular intervals with a prepared shopping list. If I don’t see something on my list available at a bargain price, then I turn to EBAY and shop there. I tailor my purchase interests to my available budget, and not the inverse.
A few comments if you please. First off, I don’t understand folks revisiting a thread they’ve grown tired of. Especially to complain about what other people are complaining about. Just ignore the thread and move on.
Secondly, I think Victor has a good point. Even that track at the price of $3.70 when the rate of inflation would cost $1.86 has increased at a rate twice that of inflation. Atlas track has shot up tremendously in price since production moved to Red China. about three or four times the rate of inflation at just under 10 per cent a year averaged. Micro Engineering by contrast has increased much less in the same time span. I think the mantra of cheap Chinese production is a myth, at least as it regards model railroad goods. Nobody seems to want to recognize the increasing cost of these goods at such a high rate.
Lastly these discussions overlook one important factor. That’s the residual value of these goods. Even used high grade models have very considerable value, somethin that can’t always be said of other hobbies. Spend $100 on the golf course and it’s gone. Buy four RTR cars for $100 and you might get $60-$80 for them on the used market. This does mitigate the cost to some extent.
One of the cheapest layouts to build is a shelf ISL since you need a handful of switches and some flex track.1-3 locomotives and around 48 cars. 48 cars is a minimum number needed for a well balance rotation of cars—that rotation is needed so you don’t switch the same set of cars…
But Larry, you’re not a “real model railroader” if you don’t have a layout occupying the floor space equivalent of your local Super Wal-Mart with a locomotive roster rivaling that of the UP and a rolling stock inventory to match. Everybody knows that. [(-D]
OTOH, I don’t recall the UP ever complaining how much it costs to buy diesels from GE and EMD.
Chuck,The sad part the high prices will not go away.So,why not find ways to cut costs and still get the models you want?
If you notice I gave other cost cutting ideas that can net the better grade of models-a used Atlas Classic locomotive can be found $50-60.00.I’ve bought used Atlas and Intermountain cars for $12.00 each–the same price as a Accurail kit…
That’s because you don’t belong to the forum sponsored by the Association of American Railroads, where they currently have a thread designated “railroad equipment is too expensive”.
Larry, I understand all of that. It’s just sad that one has to look to the 2nd hand market to purchase affordable things. Even the Bachmann stuff keeps going up and up.
Granted, I will never be the kind of modeler that the manufacturers like since I am so “cheap”, but I prefer to help out the smaller cottage industry type manufacturers. They actually appreciate your business and will tell you that. You’re not just dealing with an RTR mfg’r from China.
Give me LaBelle, Grandt Line, Mount Blue Models, PBL, etc anytime! They all make very affordable kits and parts to go with it. Now, for locomotives, I do purchase from the used market and repair/rebuild accordingly. I prefer the older Roco made Walthers and almost anything Kato. Once, I even bought a number of Stewart/Kato F’s at $20 a pop.
I’m just glad that I love to build things. Otherwise, I would be out of luck.
I have purchased quite a few model car kits. They make for a nice change-of-pace.