Something I ran accross: Where was the highest point on the Burlington Northern? What state, and what mountains(trick question of sorts.)?
That’s easy. Since you said “was” rather than “is” it would be at the Climax Molybdenum Mine at Fremont Pass, Colorado, elevation 11,318 feet above sea level. Mountains to the east are the Ten-Mile Range (subrange of the Mosquito Range) of the Rocky Mountains; mountains to the west are a subrange of the Sawatch Range of the Rocky Mountains.
RWM
That would have been my first thought as well. I read something in a 1976-77 Burlington Northern annual that made me stop and think. It said that the highest point was 6420 feet, in the Black Hills of S.D. (?) Would that have been true in 1976? I really thought that the passes on NP and GN were higher than that?
BN didn’t sell the Climax Branch until after 1983. The Deadwood Branch might have been the highest point on the CB&Q proper (discounting subsidiaries) but it wasn’t even the highest point on the continuous BN system (the Climax Branch was isolated). Palmer Lake, Colorado, is 7,225’ above sea level. The Climax Branch was part of the Colorado & Southern, a CB&Q subsidiary beginning in 1908. The C&S was merged into BN system in 1981.
I don’t know why it’s so important for people to worry about if something is biggest, longest, heaviest, tallest, longest, etc. Invariably the discussion descends into arcane “rules” and trivia. Isn’t it sufficient to just remark that the CB&Q had an interesting branch line operation that ascended into the Black Hills?
RWM
A fairly substantial portion of the Deadwood Branch is now a bike trail called the Mickelson Trail. I’ve had the great pleasure of biking from Deadwood (at about 4700’) over the apex of the route at Dumont (at about 6,200’) and then down to around Mystic (around 5,000’). Its a tough climb on a mountain bike and its amazing to imagine some of the old CB&Q steam power working this route. There are still footings from some of the stations, towers, etc. along the route. Its fun to see some of the places that time has seemed to pass by like Rochford and Mystic.
There is a great ride from Dumont, back down to Deadwood. It’s about 12 miles of trail, with 11 miles downhill and 1 mile of flat trail. Its 90% coasting, sometimes at 30 mph. Nice run.
The Deadwood bike shop is closed per their website. It was in the old CB&Q engine house in Deadwood. Bike are still available in Spearfish.
The tunnels in the area of Mystic are cool to see and there are several impressive bridges on the route.
I hope to finish the Mystic to Edgemont portion on a future SD trip.
Trail Map
http://www.sdgfp.info/parks/regions/northernhills/mickelsontrail/index.htm
Bridge photo
http://www.travelsd.com/about/events/2008/images/TrailTrek.jpg
Tunnel Photo
I AGREE WITH RWM, WHY DO WE HAVE ALL OF THESE ‘SILLY’ THREADS.
I WILL CORRECT THE PALMER LAKE REFERENCE. IT WAS ON BOTH THE SANTA FE AND THE RIO GRANDE AND THE C&S ONLY HAD TRACKAGE RIGHTS AS SANTA FE’S TENANT. THE ORIGINAL C&S LINE WENT EAST OF PALMER LAKE HILL THROUGH PARKER AND CAME INTO COLORADO SPRINGS FROM THE EAST.
Oh, they’re kinda’ fun. Not everything we discuss has to be dead bang serious.
It’s like discussing a baseball game. Doesn’t really mean a thing. But you can have some enjoyable time talking about it. After over 50 years of watching baseball I didn’t know that base runners are released as soon as an umpire calls the Infield Fly Rule, even with the ball still way up there in the air. Until a White Sox runner scored from third on a high pop up against the Cubs.
Made my day. And I enjoy talking about this trivial rule in a “game” that literally has no significant meaning.
Kinda’ like wondering what the highest place on the BN/CB&Q/BNSF was or is. It really doesn’t mean a thing, but it’s fun if you want to participate. I’ll agree, there are all kinds of trivial ins and outs. That’s part of the fun. If you don’t want to “play” just don’t. But if others do, just let 'em play.
I think I’ve shown that I can be serious when the discussion is serious. But we can have some fun too.
Couldn’t have been THAT silly and arcane if RWM was the first to respond. He even caught the “was” aspect of the question, and provided his usual level of meticulous detail. I found this question and its answers were more meaningful than most of the other trivial stuff that gets discussed to the point of exhaustion on this forum. And it’s simply fun, like Gabe’s “Western Where Is It” which we used to see here.
Well, such questions are usually - or at least sometimes - worthwhile for the intellectual value - ‘‘knowledge for its own sake’’, if you will. I suspect that many on this Forum and this thread are ‘junkies’ for that kind of thing.
Yes, people can and do get carried away with the trivia and rules and definitions, etc. - but along the way a lot can sometimes be learned about the respective contenders and the basis for their claim. For example: the whole ‘big steam’ debate - you can’t understand or participate in it intelligently without a pretty good understanding of the mechanical principles involved. I’ll also note that even Bob LeMassena noted in the first few paragraphs of that article that the debate was similar to that about beautiful women, or politics, religion, or baseball, and the like, etc., if I recall correctly.
And in this instance, it seems that Murphy was questioning the validity of someone else’s long-ago published claim, rather than creating one of his own - so I won’t fault him for stirring up trouble on account of that.
On the instant subject, it appears that other than RWM’s answer, that old claim may be correct by a few feet, as Homestake Pass at 6,328 ft. seems to be the next lowest contender - or at least pretty close to accurate, ‘depending’ on the particulars of those rules and definitions. Here’s a link to an interesting BNSF system map that shows the highest elevations on the principal routes, as follows for the former BN [only] routes:
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Murph
In 1976 there was still a sign at Dumont that listed the elevation and said it was “The highest point on the CB&Q”. Unfortunately I never took a photo then and my last two trips by it in '78 were in the dark.
As far as BNSF goes, I think our Maria’s Pass (not a PC spelling, just good English), at 5,213’ is a contender for the modern record. I don’t consider the MRL’s leased lines as part of the BNSF today. I’ll have to check out the “high lines” in SD. Interesting. Too bad they have been turned into Yuppie trails.
If you’re ranking BNSF summits by height, Maria’s would be a contender for… maybe tenth place?
The highest point is just outside of Flagstaff Arizona at 7,000 feet. The sign by the track reads, this is the highest point between Chicago and Los Angeles.
The BNSF system map that I referenced above has 2 entries in that vicinity:
‘‘7,587’ via Raton and North Route (non-intermodal rte - exception only)’’
‘‘7,354’ via Amarillo and South Route (main intermodal transcon route)’’ - since this matches the Arizona Divide elevation (see below), which is a few miles west of Flagstaff, this is likely the location that is designated by the sign mentioned in the above post.
Okay. I think this is fun. Learn something new everyday! Q: what state has the lowest “High Point” of an operating railroad? Florida (max. el. 345’)? Rhode Island? Dunno. Again, just fun!!! What if Long Island was a state? Delaware? Yar, it is a state. I think…
Hays
After some further thought, a couple more observations from this data:
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Murphy Siding’s Black Hills line does appear to be the highest point on the ‘old’ BN = pre-merger with the AT&SF, though possibly subject to RWM’s Colorado mining branch clearly trumping it depending on how and whether it is included, etc.
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Although this might better deserve its own thread:
Despite a pair of 7,300
Hmmm…as a member of the Society for American Baseball Research I’m not sure I can agree with that…
[swg] www.sabr.org [(-D]
Highest point on the New York Central was Big Moose, in the central Adirondacks. Elevation is 2035’, which puts it above the SLSF, if well below all of the lines that crossed the Rockies.
There is still active track there (Adirondack Scenic) - although we aren’t currently running “revenue” trains to there right now. In fact, a train came through Big Moose just last week on a ferry move from Lake Placid.
Unless there’s a spot along the PA border that’s higher (Eries’s crossing at Gulf Summit, just north of the Starucca Viaduct was around 1350’, and O&W’s “Apex” was about 1435’), Big Moose is probably it for NY and all the railroads there.
Lowest High Point is an interesting thought. I’d bet that you might be right with FLA.
I’m guessing that the lowest - Low Point - would be on the UP (former SP) near Salton Sea. - 200 ft below sea level.
The lowest low point in current use is close to 230 feet below sea level where the Sunset Route follows the shore of the Salton Sea. Prior to 1906, the lowest point on the line was at Dos Palmas (Durmid) at 278 feet below sea level.