Greetings to all railfans, railroad workers and supporters nationwide. As you all know recently President Obama has been working along with the states of Illinois, Florida and Minnesota in order to began the completion of a high speed rail system. These corridors would be a vital asset to cutting down traffic congestion and airport delays also it would improve rail quality and create jobs.
I’m writing this simply to say that now is the time to capitalize on this opportunity as Americans and revolutionalize the transcontinental railroad system.However we have to do it make sure you get involved. It’s about time that we catch up with the rest of the world. The world has passed us by for the last quarter century when it comes to implementing a system that is reliable and some are even coordinated with airports.
So in closing, I would like to encourage all railfans, commuters, and railroad employees alike to contact your city and state representatives to keep up the fight so that we can finally get on track.
Important, of course, practical, I doubt it, North America is slightly larger than Japan or areas of Europe, A high speed train fom Halifax to Vancouver or Bangor to Santa Barbara is not even a dream, the cost is so prohibitive the next 3 generations will not see nor afford it. The talk of high speed trains should always be preceeded by “inter-city”, any other distant is preposterous, I remember talk of a high speed train from Calgary to Edmonton in Alberta in the mid 1950’s, they are still not one foot further on the plan, maybe in 100 years(or never)
tatans, you are over simplifying a rash anti HSR statement and underscoring the misunderstanding of what HSR and railroading, especially passenger rail, is all about. No on has ever called for coast to coast high speed rail but rather shorter corridors, city pairs and strings, where such a train would be viable. HSR cannot be simply dismissed but has to be explored, studied, and implimented in this country for our economic and power future.
As is posted elsewhere. Transcontinental? Not in my life time. CHI - DEN over 1000 miles and Mineapolis - Denver 900+ miles. A 200 MPH HSR would take over 5 HRS + 150 mph 7+ HRS. There are no intervening citys of any size with exception of Kansas City.
On the south of the US Jax - New Orleans 550+miles ( really not a very large city or metropolitan area) - Houston 350+ miles - San Antionia 200+ miles ( doable) - the PHoenix/ Tucson almost a 1000 miles. So for the near to mid term (30 - 40 yrs no reason to connect the mid west to the rocky mtn citys.
CHI - NY is under 1000 miles and all the other east coast citys are less except BOS.These are all metropolitan areas that actually overlap each other with a very large population base. The NC golden triangle has more population than DEN, San Antionia, Phoenix and mileage is only Raleigh 530 - CLT 700 rail miles from NYP. The HSR route from Raleigh will knock off about 30 Miles from those miles
I’m certainly not anti-HSR, probably the sanest way to travel, why would one not call for coast to coast service, makes sense to train travellers, sure everyone wants an HSR to the next town, but there are a lot of people want to travel coast to coast in comfort in a couple of days.
We don’t know what HSR is or what is meant by it yet. Over 300MPH? 200MPH? 100MPH? 75MPH? 50MPH? or the average @35MPH achieved by most schedules of today? Each increment will address each market. Is flashing through the Rockies at 300MPH practical in anyway?..might just as well fly for all you’re gonna see…or for the costs of infrastructure of tunnels and bridges to make it happen. Remember it is not just the end points that count, but also the little points enroute to add to the passsenger load (income) to make it cost effective…but how many stops, how often? Achieve 300MPH but average 100MPH end to end? We throw the term HSR around with know full understanding of what we are talking about…a baseball? hockey puck? basketball? football? Yeah, football, political football, until we finally get to ride it.
“We don’t know what HSR is or what is meant by it yet. Over 300MPH? 200MPH? 100MPH? 75MPH…”
Henry, I think, I know you live up in the Northeastern Area of the US. HSR with the NE Corridor is a reality in your area, and a real benefit that you can enjoy at will. I enjoy reading about the HSR there, and seeing as much as I can read about the European Network, it is amazing.
Unfortunately, I am afraid that out here beween the East and West Coasts it is highly problematic, We have more ROWs abandoned than have ever been built. The construction of such a line on a dedicated ROW would be astronomical, to say the least. That does not even consider land costs, even factoring in "Eminent Domaine" I would not be able to hazard a guess how long, and how expensive would be the court battles would be. I would suspect it could not be done i a couple of lifetimes. Even under the similar circumstances that this country in the 50’s and 60’s accomplished the Interstate and Defense Highway Network envisioned by Dwight Eisenhower. There is no comparison to the distances involved in this country and those in Europe. Who would operate this HSR in America, The U.S. Government? Its’ incompetence is manifest.
I’d really like to see a system of private ROW in this country, but anymore than what is currently in place in the Northeast is mostlikely a pipedream and Science Fiction. Now, if you could dig a tunnel from the East Coast to the Left Coast , using Maglev, and atomic energy you might make it happen.
As a skeptical, suspicious outside observer, permit me an observation:
If High Speed Rail was important, it would either:
Already exist.
Be the subject of a huge groundswell of public support.
The NE corridor exists, such as it is. If there is a huge groundswell of public support, it seems to be largely invisible. I dare say there’s more public support for teaching ballet in public schools.
Don’t get me wrong. I am a fan of high speed rail, have ridden the original (Osaka-Tokyo) Shinkansen and would love to see something similar to Japan’s network in the US. However, there are far more pressing needs for public money, and far too little interest in HSR.
Each market and each market pair, each corridor, each line, of any kind of HSR would be studied and designed parochially. Therefore there will be no set standard for HSR than it will be faster than what we have now. Private or public? It will be constoriums, partnerships of railroads, equipment manufacturers, equipment owners, operators, marketers, governmtents and agencies at all levels and different in each location. In the mid 30’s Chicago-Denver was a hot corridor of 100mph+ marketing but does that mean that today it would be the same? Yes, outside the Norteast Corridor area there are lots of abandoned or underutilized roadbeds based on freight usage, but are they good for corridor building between major markets and cities? I am not sure what the economics of such HSR would be, how many intermediate stops are needed or too many on any given line? We can throw the term HSR around and beat the drums for it all we want, but until we get specific line studies for market and application, we are just flapping our gums.
It is true that public spending on HSR will create jobs associated with the project. However, it will also kill jobs elsewhere. It may actually kill more jobs than it creates. This is because the public money spent on HSR is borrowed, and it must be paid back by the private sector, so that debt obligation goes hand-in-hand with a future tax increase.
The private sector investor makes a bet that his or her investment will pay off over time. The evident prospect of a future tax increase worsens the odds of that bet, thus discouraging investment.
True, true. The project could be financed from current taxes, at least if we were operating on a balanced budget basis. Your point still holds in the balanced budget case; for the government to spend money it must tax it away from the public. The public, left to themselves, would spend or invest their money as each individual saw fit. If anyone believed that HSR was a paying investment, it would be privately financed. That financing would be equity and debt investments made voluntarily by the public. Since no one believes that the public will voluntarily invest in HSR, advocates must resort to the political process so they can take the public’s money by force. Since the project is not a economi
There is a book…title and author escapes my muddled brain at the moment, he’s in Seattle now, once from Binghtamton, NY…which states that communities rail service are more economically prosperous than those without passenger rail. So if this is true, then passenger rail in general, HSR in particular, should provide jobs beyond its own manufacture and operations.
Living in this country and reaping the rewards requires a sense of responsiblity by its citizinery whether individuals or an organization or business. Rather than make stupid and rash statements, rather than sitting by the side poking sticks at it (government, politicians, processes, et al.), rather than stirring up problems and dissent, why not roll one’s sleeves up and become part of the action hopefully steering it in the way you think it maybe should go. Its easy to irresponsibly shoot things down, call everybody names, tear all apart without ways of putting it back together. Wouldn’t the same engery be better spent working to making things happen properly or more the way you wish? NIMBYS, NAYSAYERS, and NAMECALLERS expel a lot of hot air which raises temperatures and tempers without producing positive work.
Please point out the stupid and rash statements you object to. I have seen no NIMBYS and no NAMECALLERS in this thread. Please identify them.
I am proud to be one of the few NAYSAYERS with regard to HSR and Amtrak long distance trains. Please point out any “hot air” on my part. In my previous post I simply pointed out the fact that there is typically no economic case for HSR, if there were the private sector would be clamoring to create HSR lines. The private sector is not so clamoring. I also pointed out that the government can get its money only from the people, and that in the general case of HSR the value of the project is less than the cost of forgone opportunities. This is all basic economics.
I also made the point that as a matter of practice we the people make no effort to identify those forgone opportunities. The closest we come is to apply the government’s cost of borrowing to the costs and benefits of the project. The result is to bias the system toward gover
They’ve talked about high speed rail between St. Louis and Chicago for years, maybe I’ll finally live to see it built. But it’s only going to be in certain sections of the line. The River Runner to Kansas City is doing much better on time since UP made their passing track extensions.
My point Mac, was generic. I’ve met so many people who sit on the side and chat up a storm about what they don’t like or don’t want or do want instead. When I have suggested they go to a meeting, call the whoever is in charge, become a card carrying member of the cause they embrace, or get involved in someway to help steer things their own way, and they’ll tell me they can’t be bothered or they don’t think it will make a difference. I don’t believe you can, or should, just stand up and be counted but you have to roll up your sleeves to make yourself count. It’s easy to shout about anything, but it is harder, and more responsible, to do more than shout to make it go your way. There are a lot of shouters heard here, but so few who will get involved, really involved, in making things happen.