The Locomotive painting Process?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

Hi, I have been using rattle cans to paint my engines, and I want to convert to airbrushes.

Help me fill in the questions on this list:

  1. Soak engine shell in 90% isopropyl Alcohol to remove dust/old paint/etc

  2. Soak engine shell in warm, soapy water to remove fingerprints/other paint deformities.

  3. Prime with Rustoleum Primer

  4. Spray with black arcrylic/solvent based paint - (1) what brand of paint? (2) how much thinner to add to the paint?

  5. Do a second layer if necessary.

  6. Spray a testors gloss finish - (1) how much thinner to add to the finish?

  7. apply decals

  8. Spray a testors matte finish - (1) how much thinner to add to the finish?

Are these steps correct? Is there anything I should add?

Thanks for the big help [:D]

EDITED(please read):

What paint type should I use? Modelmaster vs Pollyscale vs Floquil vs Scale coat I & II?

Charles

2

1 90% not 70%

2 Why wouldn’t you? A couple of drops of dishwasher detergent cost almost nothing in time and money to prevent a finger print from messing up the paint job

3 ok
4 What kind of paint can you get? If you don’t have a local train store, the local hobby shop will be well stocked for painting war game minatures and cars. Life (and color mixing) is easier if you stick to one brand of paint. I like the clean up of acrylic model master paint, but lacquer based paints do a good job. At some point when I was out of the hobby, Floquil and Poly S went out of production. It is possible to still find them on the shelves, make sure the paint is not congealed at the bottom of the jar. Scale coat is billed as ready for airbrush, but many people here still use a thinner.

For lacquer based paints I use lacquer thinner. For acrylics I use a 80/20 mix of water and 70% isopropyl alcohol. Most people recommend distilled water rather than tap. The ratio paint to thinner is 3:1 or 3:2 and people say the consistency should be of 2% milk. I’ve been drinking 2% milk for 40 years and I can’t tell when 1/2 oz of black paint has that consistency.

You need to experiment on something sacrificial and see what works best out of your airbrush. Since you specify black, I assume we are talking steam and possibly a metal body. I have not sprayed metal engines (brass or otherwise) so wait for someone with more experience to weigh in on that.

5 You will be giving it a second coat unless you put it on too thick the first coat.

6 Testors makes a gloss coat, but it never seems to be in stock at my LTS. I uses a model master clear gloss. Cody recommends 3 coats.

8 Testors rattle can dull coat. MM has a dull coat you can airbrush if you like. My dull coat comes out pretty heavy but there is nothing wrong with a second coat,

3

Hey Charles.

Congratulations on getting into air brushing!

To answer your questions as best I can (Henry has already done a pretty good job):

  1. 90% Isopropyl Alcohol will work on most paints but not all. In some cases like Riverossi you may need to use something stronger. I have a cleaning solution called “Mean Green” which works quite well, but I know there is another product available in the US that many recommend. I just can’t remember the name.[D)] It is an automotive spray cleaner I believe. Hopefully somebody will chime in with that.

  2. You don’t need to soak the shell in soapy water, just give it a quick scrub and rinse. Let it dry thoroughly. Handle the shell with nitrile gloves during and after the wash.

  3. Rustoleum is good, but any cheap automotive primer will do the same thing. Be aware however that some primers are designed to fill scratches and minor imperfections. Those primers will fill in your details so read the labels carefully.

  4. Which paint? Many people prefer many different paints. I use Polly Scale and True Line Trains primarily but that doesn’t do you one bit of good because they are both discontinued.[:(!] I suggest getting one or two different brands and trying them out on the cheapest toy train cars that you can find. I will strongly suggest that you prepare the test cars as you would the actual model to be painted. You don’t need to strip them, but do wash them and prime them. You won’t get proper results if the cars are still covered in some three year old’s saliva![swg][(-D][(-D]

  5. “Do a second coat if necessary”??? Ummm, no. If you try to get full coverage with one coat you are going to end up with all the details full of paint and you may get runs. Take a look at Cody’s videos. He puts his paint down in very thin coats. You should still be able to see a lot of the primer colour after the first coat, and even some after the sec

4

I’m in agreement with all the good advice from Henry and Dave.

The one sticky step, to me anyway, is the Rustoleum (or Krylon?) primer step #3.

As Dave points out some of these primers can be heavy-bodied, especially if they say “automotive or sandable” anywhare on the label.

I certainly use my share of all kinds of different primers but when it comes to detail work I shy away from them.

So… the paint I’ve been using for engines and cars, both brass and plastic, is Scalecoat I and II. I am very pleased with the results and the paint dries to a super gloss finish ready for decals (save for one or two of their paints designed for a flat finish).

The Scalecoat line was recently picked up by Minuteman Models and I’ve made several purchases from them in the past few months with great service.

http://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/

And the excellent advice Dave offers— to PRACTICE on older cars or even plain sheets of shiny card stock or poster board will let you get the feel of handling the brush and adjusting the air ratios and pressures.

These brass Pennsy cars were done in Scalecoat I Tuscan Red.

Here’s the Troop Sleeper after decaling but without any clear over the decals (yet). The trust plate on the upper right of the car has microscopic text that would have been obliterated with even the lightest primer coat. I’ll try to get a close-up of it.

5

Thanks all for the info!

One thing that everyone seems to be disagreeing on is the type of paint to use.

So what are the pros and cons of each brand of paint?

Modelmaster vs Pollyscale&Floquil vs Scale coat I & II?

Thanks

Charles

6

if you have a Walmart near you, check out the primer that comes in the blue and white cans; it cost 96 cents and does a good job of covering, and comes out at a nice rate without covering details. Cleanliness is the best way to ensure a good paint job. After stripping old paint, I never touch the model without gloves. Nothing will ruin a paint job (and waste a lot of time) than an oily fingerprint.

7

Yes, i’ve tried that. That paint is horrible, I destroyed one of my models becase the paint is so diluted, that it would just seem around the little details around the model. I had to restrip the engine and repaint with some better primer. I use Rustleum profession primer.

Dont get me wrong,the 96 cent paint cans are the best, in fact they are the only brand that has the paint come out smooth, unlike EVERY rustoluem(nonnprofessional) paint can that comes out in dried chunks, making me restrip and repaint. MOST of thr Krylon paints I’ve bought are way to watery, like the cheap primer.

The walmart 96 cent blacks are my favorite, but im trying to convert to air brush.

8

I think one reason there may be different views on each paint, is because of availibility, and what you can get in your area, or what your willing to order and wait for.

They are all good. I get the ModelMasters at a local arts/crafts store, about 15 miles away. I get other brands when I make the 30 mile trip to my main hobby shop.

Of course, I can get the spray paint cans at any of the BB or hardware stores, which I seldom / almost never use on models with details. Thats why the air brush is so good, as you can lay down thin coats, and not cover or destort details.

Good advice on the Dull coat and Gloss coat, as alot of paint comes out quick! I usually warm up spray cans before I use them by sitting them in warm water, and shaking often. It seems to help the paint go on in a finer mist, instead of blobs.

Mike.

9

Let’s see here. I still use rattle cans. You have to hold them at the right distance, too close and you get sags and runs, to far and the paint dries before it hits the model.

Isopropyl Alcohol. I call that paint removal rather than cleaning. The 90% works btter than the 70%. It you want to remove all the old paint, that’s a good way to go. I usually just paint over the old paint.

Either way, after paint removal with alcohol or whatever (Pinesol, Easy-off, etc) or not, you want the surface as clean as possible. Warm water and dish wash, plus scrub with a toothbush, followed by a warm water rinse, will take off fingerprints and just plain grime. Let it dry all the way, overnight is good. Handle with gloves after the last rinse.

Rustoleum and Krylon make three colors of auto primer. The Dark Gray

10

I just finished my Roundhouse 4-4-2 Atlantic using spray cans. I got a very nice finish with Krylon. I used 3 - 4 VERY light coats a few minutes apart - just enough to completely cover the primer color. I did not lose any detail definition and the paint flowed out nice and smooth. Krylon has flat black, semi-flat black, gloss black, semi-gloss black, and satin black. I used the satin finish as I was looking for a brand spanking new loco look, rather than a weathered loco look.

My only issue is that I used Duplicolor automotive Self Etching Primer, which I thought would give the best bond to the white metal castings, but as it turns out the bond is not very good at all. I need to find a better primer for the next project.

For preparation I thoroughly scrubbed the castings with a fine “Toothbrush” type wire brush, then wiped down with acetone. The fine wire brush seemed to give me a nice scuffed surface that I thought would hold the primer well. On the next kit I might try glass beading the castings.

11

The advice here is good. A couple of comments:

Everyone has their own methods and products they like that can yield great results. Just my opinions here–

Here is my two cents: Don’t use rattle cans for any of it. The point of using the airbrush in the first place to is to precisely control the amount of paint being applied to the model and to not hide the detail. Use the airbrush for the primer and the gloss and dull coats. You can airbrush a great coat of black over a coat of rattle can primer that has gone on too thick and still end up with a crummy paint job (don’t ask)…

Paint Choice: There are some of us who are all acrylic for a variety of reasons. For me, it is not wanting to deal with the fumes and ventilation issues with solvent based paints. Because of recent discontinuations of the Polly scale (acrylic) and Floquil (solvent) brands, the hobby is in a bit of disarray as everyone who used those brands (for fifty years) uses up the old stock and has to switch over to another currently available brand. This may account for some of the ambiguity about brands/types of paint that you are seeing these days among modelers.

12

Tamiya is the best of the rattle can paints, their primer goes on smoothly and their clear flat is a true flat, unlike Dullcoat which has more of a satin surface than a true flat.

13

  1. 90% Isopropyl works most of the time.

  2. Yes. Always. Nothing looks worse than a giant sized thumb print on any scale model anything.

  3. Some kind of primer, your choice of which. (Unless the shell had zero work done and is a single light primer color. Then and only then can the primer be skipped.) Just avoid the filler primer, unless you want details covered over. Light coats, more than one. (Some brands offer primers that you can use in your airbrush.) Repeat coats as necessary.

  4. What brand depends on if you want acrylic, enamel, or lacquer based paints. General rule of thumb with thinner is enough to make the paint the consistency of 2% milk. If you use acrylic, like me, always use distilled water, never tap water or drinking water. The minerals will leave a nasty film on the model. (Yes, I learned this the hard way.) My acrylic of choice is Badger Modelflex. With it, it only nee

14

Thank you so much everyone for replying!!!

So now my question is this:

What paint does everyone prefer?

Model Master vs Pollyscale vs Floquil vs Scale coat I & II

Also what is Scale coat I & II? - I’ve heard that you need to bake scale coat I?!??!

Thanks again!

Charles

15

Hi, Charles

If you are just starting out with airbrushing and taking that leap from the 97¢ Sam’s Choice rattle can may I suggest getting a decent book on the subject.

Our very own Cody Grivno has an excellent book covering work shop tips including airbrushing.

https://kalmbachhobbystore.com/product/book/12475

The choice of paint will, to some degree, be a choice that only you can answer but you have to give the various types a test drive for yourself. Each one has advantages and each one has disadvantages.

For years I was spoiled by the acrylic, water-cleanup paints. Yes, they were nearly all flat finish so an additional gloss coat had to be applied if you were using decals. (I use dry transfers on some of my models, which do not require a glossy surface)

When Polly S and Modelfllex dried up I started looking for alternatives and decided to give Scalecoat a try. Weaver Models formerly distributed the paint and they had some tips for using it on their site.

I gave you the link to the new distributor above but the tips/hints page is no longer there.

Shooting enamel or lacquer paints requires different air and nozzle settings than with acrylic paints.

Scalecoat I is formulated for shooting directly on bare (clean) brass, metal or wood and Scalecoat II is formulated to spray directly on bare clean plastic.

Both dry to a hard, high gloss surface that, I have found, is ideal to apply decals to directly. None of my painting sessions with Scalecoat have ever required a second coat (unless doing a multi-color job, of course)

I do like to bake BRASS models, with ALL plastics removed (NO motors, wiring, plastic details) at about 150-170° F for about 45 min-1hr. (exact conditions may vary and this step is recommended but OPTIONAL) I check the oven with an IR thermometer.

Below is a link so you can browse Cody’s Magnum Opus before in

16

After years of uneven results using acrylics-mostly because of clogging in the airbrush head, I tried using airbrush medium-night and day difference in results. Thin paint, airbrush medium and low pressure.

17

Mike:

Can you explain what you mean by “air brush medium”? Is it something you add to the paint?

Thanks,

Dave

18

Airbrush medium is a product that can be used to thin acrylic paints for airbrushing. It helps the paint to lay down in a smooth layer. Google “airbrush medium” and you can find a list of available products. I prefer Golden Airbrush Medium but others probably work as well.

Joe

19

[quote user=“gmpullman”]

Trainman440
3. Prime with Rustoleum Primer

I’m in agreement with all the good advice from Henry and Dave.

The one sticky step, to me anyway, is the Rustoleum (or Krylon?) primer step #3.

As Dave points out some of these primers can be heavy-bodied, especially if they say “automotive or sandable” anywhare on the label.

I certainly use my share of all kinds of different primers but when it comes to detail work I shy away from them.

So… the paint I’ve been using for engines and cars, both brass and plastic, is Scalecoat I and II. I am very pleased with the results and the paint dries to a super gloss finish ready for decals (save for one or two of their paints designed for a flat finish).

The Scalecoat line was recently picked up by Minuteman Models and I’ve made several purchases from them in the past few months with great service.

http://www.minutemanscalemodels.com/

And the excellent advice Dave offers— to PRACTICE on older cars or even plain sheets of shiny card stock or poster board will let you get the feel of handling the brush and adjusting the air ratios and pressures.

These brass Pennsy cars were done in Scalecoat I Tuscan Red.

Here’s the Troop Sleeper after decaling but without any clear over the decals (ye

20

  1. Just to state the (seemingly) obvious - if possible, buy an undecorated model so you don’t have to strip the existing paint and lettering.

  2. Tamiya spray can primer goes on in about as fine a spray as an airbrush, I use that even if I’m going to follow it up with airbrushing a color.

  3. Yes, if you’re painting a black engine like a steam engine. Although I would just use Tamiya flat black spray can paint if it’s all black. If you’re doing a steam engine, you might want to spray a weathered black - more like a dark gray than black.

  4. Better to do two light coats than one overly heavy one.

  5. Tamiya gloss finish spray out of the can works fine.

  6. Tamiya flat finish works well out of the spray can too.

I generally then weather the car or engine with an overall light coating of powdered charcoal, then seal that in with flat spray. Unlike chalk weathering, the powdered charcoal doesn’t disappear when sealed in. Then I add chalk weathering over the car or engine as needed.