The traffic is there already the line is in good shape ,Commuter Traffic is there, Richmond is steadily growing…Only problem is convincing outside of NOVA Beltway VA legisature that they need it.[^o)]
Not on the railroad I own shares in. The Train Control requirements on the RF&P already create more than their share of operational issues. CSX is working on the National Gateway project to increase clearances for 20’2" double stacks - to install catenary and/or 3rd rail would make operations infinately more complex.
If you want the VA legislature to electfify the entirety of the I-95 corridor - from Jacksonville to Selkirk and pay to resolve all the clearance issues it would create in concert with 20’2" double stacks, CSX could use the money.
This would not be a prudent investment of Virginia tax dollars! Talk about boondoggle!
What does it gain? Even the PRR figured out diesels were better.
Don’t believe that line has anything near the train density / frequency - even counting all of the Amtrak, Auto-Train, and VRE trains - that the New Haven, New York Central, and PRR had into and out of New York City, and the rest of the NorthEast Corridor in the case of the PRR, when they electrified early in the 20th century.
No tunnels (or long cut-and-covers) as there are in New York City, or Baltimore’s tunnels.
Diesel operations today are far cleaner than the old steam locomotives, so there’s nowhere near as much to be gained in cleaning up those emissions by eliminating the dark clouds of belching smoke.
No major grades on the RF&P either - not even up and down through an underwater tunnel crossing or an overhead bridge - so there’s no compelling need there, either.
So what’s your basis for saying this ?
- Paul North.
don’t expect it to happen until the more important item of 4 tracking the whole route from WASH Union station to Richmond Main Street station is complete. That includes the single track choke point of Fredericksburg.
The only people likely to benefit would be Amtrak, they could run their electric units from Boston to Richmond without an engine change, but they’d still have to swap units for trips further south. Not worth it.
CSX doesn’t need to do it at all, after all it’s their 'road south of DC.
There isn’t any single track choke point in Fredericksburg. No single track at all until you get south of South AY beyond Acca yard, on the way to Main Street station. I don’t believe we have the volume of passenger traffic to justify electrification on the RF&P. The VRE service terminates in DC, so there would be no savings in changing power. Freight would be out of the question, as everything from the north comes via the former B&O and PRR through Annacostia. No wire no the B&O to Baltimore! Not to mention the bottleneck which would be created at Acca, changing to Diesel. It is a decent piece of railroad, with more crossovers, many of them 45mph, than we ever had on the old RF&P. There is also the very useful third track from RO to Franconia. Modern railroading requirements limit the dispatcher’s options, as one gentleman will attest to. 9000’ trains which go in emergency or set off a defect detector tie up an entire subdivision. The conductor must have block protection to walk the hot side of the train. No more just keeping your ears and eyes open. The non hot side has such steeply sloped ballast, that a man has to be half mountain goat to navigate it! Then there are those annoying track inspectors in their high rail trucks, doing what the FRA requires. The Sperry car visits and slow orders bloom like flowers in the spring. Crews hoglaw for a variety of reasons, mostly beyond their control. Triple track, where you can (Aquia creek-Quantico was supposed to happen). Unscramble the mess in Richmond. There is room to redouble track South AY-almost Main Street station. Extend #4 track from Greendale station, Hilliard road-North Acca, tying it in near the I64 bridge on the passenger main. The roadbed is there. And maybe, dare I say it, limit the freight train size so we can get them over the road and clear interlockings quickly. (never going to happen!)
The North East Megalopolis is growing. The state of VA actually used the own the RFP Corridor and still has options on it. As for Freight we could speed up the Juice Train and other N/S High Priority Traffic. The Investment would pay for itself. Imagine getting to 6 fla alwgs and home in time for dinner. Oil will not always be cheap…I expect my fellow railfans to have a can do attitude here and not be so negatve[8-|]
Amtrak has been wanting to modernize the cat north of Washington to NYC for 40 years, and that has not happened yet. I haven’t heard that south of DC is even on their radar.
There is NO SINGLE TRACK CHOKE POINT on the RF&P. The former choke point at Quantico had a double track bridge completed about 2007 - the existing single track bridge remained in place for use when a 3rd track is ultimately installed. Richmond to DC is all double track and in some locations 3 tracks.
Considering how much more frequently the old old PRR catenary has been failing between Washington and New York at least over the past few years, one would think that replacing that catenary is more important to Amtrak than adding new electrified mileage.
I assume the cost of new catenary, Washington to N.Y., would take an act of Congress. Seems like something Congress could and would do, the Corridor being right under its nose and benefitting so many people, including its own (staffers and lawmakers themselves).
Does anybody have a recent cost estimate? Thanks.
Not sure about the cost, but check the April 2014 issue of “Trains”, particularly Fred Frailey’s “Corridor Conumdrum” article.
Things are ROUGH from DC north, according to Mr. Fred.
Fred’s article claims that it would cost about $1.8 billion to replace the catenary. I would think that would include the cost of installing new wires on certain structures that will be replaced so in the ideal world money should be spent to replace those structures (namely the Susquehanna, Bush and Gunpowder river bridges) in conjunction with string up replacement wires.
All I am saying is that Richmond VA is the next link in the NE Corridor so yes it makes sense to raise the issue
I guess one positive effect of electrification would be eliminating the smoke break at DC while they change power. This would force people into a healthier life style. I would, however, miss my mad dash upstairs to the Mcdonald’s for a good cup of cheap coffee and soft serve ice cream. To this I must say, over my dead, fat body!
Unless they’ve changed in the decades since I last tried a McDonald’s coffee, I will agree that the good part of it was the cup, not the coffee 
I guess you’ll still have a chance to do the quick dash upstairs on some trains. Although DC, and all stations north, are Discharge only may leave before advertised time, I doubt they’ll ever get the dwell time below 10 minutes in order to handle luggage, although I can see that it probably takes less time to unload luggage than it does also to load it.
IMHO additional CAT & electrification will occur in this order .
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Upgrading all NYP - WASH CAT before there is a major failure. ( probably from a storm ? )
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Electrifying the additional tracks that are planned Providence - Boston.
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New Haven — Springfield - knowledge corridor once double tracks are restored. That will allow MNRR EMUs to operate without any delay all the way to Grand Central Terminal as well as Springfield - WASH service.
4., NYP - Albany now that Amtrak now controls the whole route. Albany has an engine facility anyway so empire and other trains could change there. ACS-64s might be able to make thru trains Albany - WASH for those NEC trains that now originate NYP.
- The completion of 4 tracks PHL – WASH
Then since the above will take 20 - 25 years
- If Richmond - WASH commuter traffic warrants 4 tracking + elimination of street running then could be done but not for freight traffic.
Oh, there’s certainly no harm in bringing up the subject, that’s why the Forum’s here to begin with.
Unless Amtrak would own the RF&P it will NEVER happen. CSX won’t permit it - there is nothing in electrification that benefits CSX operations.