When I was a little girl, in the 1940s, my Mother and I would go from New Jersey (on a local train) to the great original Pennsylvania Station and catch the Maple Leaf Express. I believe it was Canadian-owned (but it could have been the Pennsylvania Railroad?). The train would ride on the NY Central tracks along the Hudson River in NY State and turn (where?) and go over a high trestle across the Niagra River (over the Whirlpool Gorge) into Canada and on to London, Ontario.
I would like to hear from anyone who remembers this train – we usually had a Roomette, but sometimes went Pullman) so I could verify details for a book I am writing. It was a glorious trip.
MWallis ; welcome to the Diner. sounds like you will have a good book. There is lots of information out there that you seek , from B.C. to Toronto. Good luck to you. Respectfully, Jim ( Cannonball)
The original Maple Leaf of 1927 was a Grand Trunk Western train from Montreal to Chicago. I think the Maple Leaf from Penn Station began around 1939. Here are links to a 1946 Maple Leaf timetable
M Wallis, welcome to the Forums [#welcome]. As you may have seen, we enjoy exchanging information, and we also have a little social time (stop in at the FlatWheel Cafe and enjoy the virtual food that Cherokee Woman (and, from time to time, others) serves up, and enjoy the give-and-take between the stopperbys. If you stop by the Trackside Lounge, bring your own snacks, but enjoy the atmosphere.
As to the Maple Leaf, after looking through several copies of the Offical Guide that I have from the forties, the only train with any name like that was the Lehigh Valley train that Mike (Wanswheel) mentioned. The train was, as Mike noted, a Lehigh Valley train that used Penn Station in New York City, and it ran through Niagara Falls on its way to Toronto (the Canadian National operated it between Toronto and Niagara Falls). You may have changed trains in Toronto for London. As to sleeping accomodations, the proper name for the private rooms between New and Toronto is “bedroom;” were there two berths (upper and lower) in the room you occupied? That route is one of many that I wish I had been able to take way back when.
M Wallis, welcome to the Forums [#welcome]. As you may have seen, we enjoy exchanging information, and we also have a little social time (stop in at the FlatWheel Cafe and enjoy the virtual food that Cherokee Woman (and, from time to time, others) serves up, and enjoy the give-and-take between the stopperbys. If you stop by the Trackside Lounge, bring your own snacks, but enjoy the atmosphere.
As to the Maple Leaf, after looking through several copies of the Offical Guide that I have from the forties, the only train with any name like that was the Lehigh Valley train that Mike (Wanswheel) mentioned. The train was, as Mike noted, a Lehigh Valley train that used Penn Station in New York City, and it ran through Niagara Falls on its way to Toronto (the Canadian National operated it between Toronto and Niagara Falls). You may have changed trains in Toronto for London. As to sleeping accomodations, the proper name for the private rooms between New and Toronto is “bedroom;” were there two berths (upper and lower) in the room you occupied? That route is one of many that I wish I had been able to take way back when.
M Wallis, welcome to the Forums [#welcome]. As you may have seen, we enjoy exchanging information, and we also have a little social time (stop in at the FlatWheel Cafe and enjoy the virtual food that Cherokee Woman (and, from time to time, others) serves up, and enjoy the give-and-take between the stopperbys. If you stop by the Trackside Lounge, bring your own snacks, but enjoy the atmosphere.
As to the Maple Leaf, after looking through several copies of the Offical Guide that I have from the forties, the only train with any name like that was the Lehigh Valley train that Mike (Wanswheel) mentioned. The train was, as Mike noted, a Lehigh Valley train that used Penn Station in New York City, and it ran through Niagara Falls on its way to Toronto (the Canadian National operated it between Toronto and Niagara Falls). You may have changed trains in Toronto for London. As to sleeping accomodations, the proper name for the private rooms between New and Toronto is “bedroom;” were there two berths (upper and lower) in the room you occupied? That route is one of many that I wish I had been able to take way back when.
Some confusion and mix-ups here, as follows - perhaps separate trips on different routes are being conflated ?
No train from Penn Station back then would have used the NY Central tracks along the Hudson River - those originated from the equally (or more impressive) Grand Central Terminal, and the “turn” would have been at Albany, NY.
I too thought the Maple Leaf was a LV RR train. It originated at Penn Station, but never went along the Hudson River either, as the map link posted by wanswheel / Mike makes clear. It would have had an engine change in the North Jersey meadowlands (which might not have been noticed), and then gone along the Lehigh River (of course !) for many miles - but no one ever confused the Lehigh with the Hudson.
Since most of the details until Niagara Falls are for the NYC route, perhaps Ms. Wallis should take a look at a NYC timetable from that era, and see if any of those seem familiar.
Yes, there are some confusing statments in Ms. Wallaces’ account. From New York City and from Pennsylvania Station, it would have been the Maple Leaf of the Lehigh Valley Railroad. From Penn Station to Newark, NJ to the LV’s route across New Jersey and up the Lehigh River Valley in Pennsylvania to the top of the Poconos, then down the hill to Wilkes Barre and along the Susquehanna River to the PA-NY border before taking to the hills to Depew, NY where the train was split with several cars going to Buffalo but the bulk of the train to Niagra Falls and on Canadian National to Toronto. WIth the proximity of all the railroads in the Buffalo-Niagra Falls area to each other, no doubt there were sightings of New York Central Also there were other trains named Maple Leaf but they did not originate in NY.
As is so common with memories from long ago (and childhood) it sounds like some confounding occurred. I looked at a 1943 NYC timetable. There would have been a train change on either the LV Maple Leaf (in Buffalo to the CN?) or if on the NYC #17 the Wolverine, at St. Thomas, Ontario, with a short ride on the L&PS railway to London.
Going into Penn Station is correct if a Pennsylvania RR local train - or perhaps one of the ‘joint’ trains operated with the CNJ off the “Long Branch” line - was used, as I believe those were the only trains that ran directly into Penn Station through the Hudson River tunnels. Everybody else had a ferry operation or required a transfer to the Hudson & Manhattan - now PATH - line, etc.
Thank you for straightening me out on many fronts. Based on what you have said, Here is a revised account:
We did, indeed, come in to Penn Staton on a local train. The recent issue of Classic Trains shows a station at Manasquan on page 17, although I would have said we boarded at Freehold (could be wrong). The timetable from 1946 shows the route and I see where my confusion occurred. During the 1960s my family made trips to Albany on the train along the Hudson. I never looked at a map or I would have known we could not have gotten to Canada that way.
I remember the Maple Leaf as a Lehigh Valley train and also several of the stations, although I’m not sure we stopped at all of them – maybe we did. I wonder if the train split and part went to Toronto and part of it made local stops? Could we have gotten off at Hamilton and taken a local train to London? If so, I do not remember changing trains but we could have – the porters and baggage men would have arranged everything. No one worried about losing luggage in those pre-flying days, you could send a little kid with a name tag and expect him to arrive safely (and his luggage, too).
You are recalling more and more as the explanations roll in! Manasquan, NJ is almost another 30 miles south of Freehold but both would have been New York and Long Branch stations with CNJ trains to Jersey City and PRR trains to Newark Penn Station and NY Penn Station. You could have gotten the LV Maple Leaf out of Newark as well as or instead of NY. The only place the LV’s Maple Leaf split was at Depew NY where several cars were taken into Buffalo while the rest of the train went on to Toronto. And yes, you could have gotten off and changed at Hamilton for London.
You could have gone to Canada via the New York Central out of Grand Central Terminal to Albany several ways. One, the D&H train from GCT to ALbany and Montreal. The NYC also had several routings to Toronto via Niagra Falls at various times. From NJ, the wisest choice with through cars to Toronto would have been the LV.
The Maple Leaf was also CN’s official logo until it was replaced by the CN “noodle” lettering in the 1960s. So when I think of Maple Leaf it congers up images of CN. And at the time CN also had GTW and VT as subsidiaries here in the US.
Dear Henry6, Yes, I am recalling more with the expert help this forum has provided. THe reason for my confusion is there were two different routes: the first, when I was a child, to visit my Grandparents in Ontario and the second, in the 60s when we went up the Hudson to Albany to visit in-laws. I am only interested in the trips to Canada and now I see how I mixed the memories.
There are still several unresolved questions, however:
We lived in Farmingdale, NJ from 1939 to 1946 and my husband (who also lived there at that time, but I didn’t meet him until High School) remembers his mother taking him to the beach on a local from Farmingdale.to Belmar. Could we have taken a local going the other direction from Farmingdale to Penn Station and what were the towns we passed through and the name of the rail line?
Since the overnight train went along the Lehigh River, which side of the river did the rrain travel on?
Did my mother make up the name, “roomette,” or was that used during the 1930s and 40s? Maybe a “room” was larger? While there was space for four to sit, it woud only sleep two.
Ahh but isn’t it fun to remember! Roomette was a Pullman term for I believe a room with two beds and lavatory facility…varied from car to car, etc. The LV started along the south bank of the Lehigh River after crossing the Delaware River at Easton, PA but crossed over to the north bank west of Allentown through Jim Thorpe and the Lehigh Gorge to White Haven.
Farmingdale was on a Pennsylvania RR branch which might or might not have had passenger trains at that time…I don’t have materials handy to show me. You might have gone east on that line to Sea Girt then north to Belmar and Penn Station. Or you could have gotten to Freehold on that line, change to a CNJ train to Matawan to go either to Belmar or Penn Sta. I’m not sure you could have gotten from Farmingdale to the PRR main line near Princeton Jct to get a train to Penn Sta or not. My thinking is that more than likely your family drove from Farmingdale to a point where you could get aboard a train, probably in the Neptune area.
CN F3A #9000, the first EMD F-delivered to CN in 1948 has been preserved at the Alberta Railway Museum and continues to wear it’s original paint scheme with the Maple Leaf Logo.
The Fallen Flags website has more pics of CN F-units, though most of these photos were taken in the 1960s and 70s, by which time most CN F-units were repainted into Zebra Stripes with the CN “noodle” on the noose.
The roomettes I’ve been in had but one bed that folded down across the toilet. On the Santa Fe, the bed narrowed at the foot so you had room to flip up the bed to use the facilities.
Not so on the NYC. There was no such narrowing, and attempting to flip up the bed was catamount to committing suicide; there was only room for part of you as the bed went up, and the bed took the rest of you. You had to slide open the door to the roomete, having the curtain firmly in place, and back out into the corridor before lifting the fed.