Building a consensus to spend money to put in new streetcar lines is hard enough. I would think getting a consensus to rip up existing lines and replace them would be harder. A lot harder.
About streetcars running down the middle of the street. How about San Francisco? Market St at one point was the last “Main St” that still had a streetcar line. Also the cable car lines up Powell, California and Hyde St.
Rgds IGN
Calgary is it. 7th Avenue downtown. Edmonton;s light rail downtown is in a subway. It is really heavy rail using light rail equipment. But Edmonton also has heritage streetcar on the CP’s high-level bridge.
John- a plan was in place, financed by the province of Ontario to build 4 new streetcar lines which would mostly be LRVs with some street running. The mayor, Rob Ford comes from the suburbs and does not like streetcars not to mention anything that interferes with the easy movement of automobiles including bicycles and pedestrians. In his view, you are a lesser person if you are not in a car. the first thing he did when he became mayor was cancel the plan (Transit City) for streetcars without the authority for doing so, as under the Toronto system of government, the mayor is only one vote on council, unlike say, Chicago which has a “strong mayor” system. City council went along with it as no one had a spine.
Once it was realised that the mayor really didn’t have a clue as to what he was doing, council fought him on this and the plan was reinstated. He campaigned on a “stop the gravy train” promise, but that did not include the money pi$$ed away by him when he cancelled Transit City so more money must be spent than originally planned plus this put the plan back by several years. As far as taking out existing streetcar lines, that just isn’t going to happen. It was tried thirty years ago and people screamed about it and so we still have them. Another thing he “promised” was more subways and he had the stupid idea that the private sector will build them to under-populated parts of the city which is not going to happen, not in my lifetime.
That is actually going to happen again due to a major scrap metal processor opening a marine loading facility well up Allens Ave.(close to the Powerplant).
I do remember seeing the Providence & Worcester RR running up that street to drop covered hoppers at the road salt terminal. Of course, that was just a locomotive pulling or pushing a couple of cars. I assume the era you are talking about is back when there were many more businesses located on the street with rail service (I didn’t move to RI until 1976 but I’ve heard that there were major produce/grocery distributors in some of those buildings that received many cars on a daily basis)
Penny wise, pound foolish. Sounds rather like the Governor of Wisconsin in regard to the rail service from Madison to Milwaukee or the governors of Ohio and FL.
I really don’t know how often trains ran along Allens Avenue but I always understood it was a common occurrence. However, they were typically just a few cars being moved to a specific location. Today the P&W is the only freight railroad in Rhode Island.
Schlimm,
Thanks for the update about Toronto. It is true that the line in the middle of the streets do interfere with cars. But I can’t see how they interfere with pedestrians and bicyclists. Downtown Toronto is simply not the suburbs.
I agree with you. Anyone who thinks that the private sector is going to build a subway is naïve.
Best regards, John
Sorry, John WR but you have it wrong, the mayor of Toronto does not like streetcars, bicycles or pedestrians in that approximate order. He said, “The streets were meant for cars!” This shows his clear stupidity since the streets were laid out basically as they are today in the early 1800s. Not a lot of cars around back then.
Light,
I missed a couple of things and I apologize. Many years ago I lived into Toronto. In those days it was about the most advanced city in North America when it came to public transportation. But nothing lasts forever. I can only hope you soon have a more enlightened mayor.
Best regards, John
Hi John- No sweat! The mayor’s term is supposed to run for another two years but I have a feeling that he will be turfed before that due to campaign financing “irregularities.” It always amazes me how when politicians finally accept that fat brown envelope they always think that they won’t get caught. “Hey, no ones ever done this before, have they?”
I was at a party last year at the Ontario legislature, one promoting micro-brewed beer and other local foodstuffs. I was quite taken by all the young aides and staffers, how keen they act and how idealistically they spoke. Going to make a difference! Sooner or later, the brown envelope shows up.
Why has Toronto and Ontario fallen so far behind in transit? The biggest employer in the province is the car industry, followed by the concrete industry.
These young people are idealists. Yet Mayor Ford has to be pretty busy defending himself from charges of illegal funding. I did some net surfing and found he escaped being put out of office but he is not out of the woods yet. And the charges will live on to haunt him. I wonder how the young idealists will come to terms with their leader’s corruption.
How will these young idealists come to terms with their “leader’s” corruption? Well, if they’re resiliant, they’ll realize he’s only one man, and there should me another out there who’s worthy of their trust. Hopefully they’ll find him or her.
Unfortunately, I suspect a lot of them will feel they’ve been played for suckers and say “to hell with politics and politicians! I’m going into something else and take care of ME first!” It’s a sad old story that seems to re-occur with every generation.
Can we get back to talkin’ about something happy, like streetcars? What do you think the new ones should look like? Brills? Jewetts? Or maybe, the ELECTROLINERS!
Electroliners! Yes, a streetcar on which you can order a hamburger and a beer- what’ s not to like? I wish I was around when they ran. In Toronto you used to be able to charter a streetcar and travel around the city drinking adult beverages of a refreshing nature. I wonder if that could still be done, I did witness it years ago. Here, we have Broadview station where the Bloor/Danforth subway, several buses and the King and Dundas streetcar lines come together. If this was Germany, there would be a small beer garden at the far end of the streetcar platform. How civilised.
Well 54Light, if they ever start renting streetcars for rolling parties in Toronto again let me know and I’ll come up for a ride! Oh boy, does that sound like fun or what?
Wayne,
I never heard of Electroliners before. At first I thought you wrote Electroliers. But you didn’t. I found some sites and some pictures and even a site on restoring Electroliners. For anyone who is interested here it is: http://northshoreline.com/liner.html
As far as Brills and Jewetts are concerned, I think they are perfectly good streetcars and it was a mistake to get rid of them. And I continue to believe that many of them were trashed because of GM. But that was a long time ago. If we today build new lines I would get new cars in modern designs.
But the Electroliners look pretty modern to me. John
Light,
Does Toronto still have Men’s Rooms? John
Wayne,
They have been played for suckers. Or maybe they haven’t been; maybe their leader deeply believes in what he is doing even if he cut a few corners. So lets hope they come to terms with the reality of their own lives.
John
The TTC will be glad to take your money to allow you to charter a streetcar to tour system and host a party. It won’t be cheap, but it will be a lot less expensive than attaching your private railroad car to an Amtrak train for an overnight journey. You may even be given the choice of a long articulated car, a regular sized modern car, or a PCC. And if you are willing to pay extra and sign some insurance papers and be willing to pay for any damages, they may even be able to furnish a restored museum-quality 1920’s era Peter Witt.