I want your thoughts on Aristocraft stainless steel track, the pro’s and the con’s of it, I have used LGB brass track for a few years but seeing it is not going to be back on the market for a few years I’m looking to other brands to fill the void… Has anyone used PIKO yet, if so what do you think? Please post… Thanks, Mark
by the way my track is powered to run the trains, so keep that in mind when you post… Thanks Again, Mark
I have Aristo stainless on my layout and the club uses only LGB brass so I have experience with both. My observations on each -
Aristo stainless -
Pros - very little cleaning required. After very little running for 3 months over the winter, I ran my aristo track cleaning car with a battery loco for 10 mins and I was good to go. Its also very strong and has less expansion and contraction than other metals used in rail.
Cons - those frackin’ little rail joiner screws and the color. Both fixable with split jaw connectors and a bit of spray paint. Another con to some may be it only comes in the USA style standard guage tie spacing and not the Euro type.
LGB brass -
Pros - the rail joiners fit nice and tight and it ages to a nice dark brown color
Cons - limited selection of diameter available - 4’, 5’, 8’, 13’ (compared to 4’, 5’, 6.5’, 8’, 9’, 10, 11.5’, etc for Aristo track). Its also only comes in the Euro tie profile. Track cleaning/sanding!
Some folks swear by LGB switches. Both brands have their problems in my experience.
-Brian
The Piko track is virtually identical to LGB’s, though the ties are slightly different in shape. (Note: the track geometry is NOT the same, nor do the “R1, R3,” etc. refer to the same curve radii.) Without confirmation, I’d bet good money that the rail and fishplates come from the same supplier that provided for LGB. It’s not cheap stuff–listing for between $9 - $12/foot. If you’re already heavily invested in LGB, and want a consistent look, it’s probably worth the money. Shop around for price.
I’ve not used the Aristo stainless stuff personally, but many of the railroads at the Phoenix convention used it, and the owners seemed to be quite pleased with it. It’s harder to cut than brass, but still easily cuttable with a good cut-off wheel in a Dremel. Reports are that you don’t have to clean it near as often as brass, but since I’ve not run power through my rails in nearly 25 years, I’m hardly the best person to speak to that aspect of it.
Later,
K
I have used both Aristo stainless and brass track in different railroads and wouldn’t return to brass for any reason. The stainless seldom needs any cleaning other than a quick whipe to remove ballast dust kicked up by a recent rain. Using just two feeders for power to the track, I have no problems running trains on over 300 foot loop.
I have had my layout of aristo stainless track down for four years now. I don’t have to clean it, conductivity out probably 150 ft is excellent with Hillman clamps, and about all I have to do is sweep off the leaves and branches so the trains won’t derail. I cannot be happier.
Paul
Say Mark,
I am Ditto, with all of the preceeding coments so far about Stainless track. It is the way to go if your line will be track powered…
Byron C.
I have had experience with both. The bigger question is what part of the country do you live in? I have pursued this hobby both in the northern and southern areas of Ontario, Canada. Aristo doesn’t do well in the north or if it receives a lot of rainfall. The moisture causes the rail joiners to rust off over time. Aristo track that is cleaned frequently with sand paper type track cleaners, begins to scratch and this causes it to collect dirt more easily. which also means that it has to be cleaned more. Marklin/LGB has started shipping track and some have arrived in Ontario already. The company is not dropping the MTS, EPL systems or the track production. These are all seriously profitable. The prices of these items may rise, but market forces will keep it in line. I hope this has been of some help. Regards, Dennis.
Well Mark
I droped back in here again, because it seems necessary to address your specific question…Things tend to get a bit Clouded at times.
I have built a total of, this being my 5th layout over the past 15 years or so, here in Florida, as well as in Ohio for about 2.5 years.
Each time I have used track power, mainly because of what I choose to run and the power/amperage, necessry to run what I do run. Long lighted passenger trains. Too impractical to try and use battery power, mind you Marty Cozad (battery user) and I have had a few discussions on this matter…battery power VS track power.
The layout in Ohio, Akron to be specific, was my third all Brass track layout (LGB and Aristo brands used) for me to have built…So mind you, I do have ample experience with brass track in all types of Climactic conditions.
THAT SAID…I HATE TO SPEND/WASTE TIME, ALWAYS CLEANING TRACK !!! That is what Brass is all about…simply put…After making the switch to stainless steel track in 2004, I for one will never return to using Brass track for my mainlines, I do however use a bit of it inside of my storage train room, to park unused rolling stock on, ONLY !!!
So if in all honesty, everyone wants to be really honest…for track powered layouts, stainless is the only way to go**.** That is A BIG PERIOD…Mark…
You can ask the folks at H & R trains in Tampa, FL. They too, sell a different brand of stainless track and have been using it for years on their outside layout.
This past weekend I visited a fellow Garden Railroad members home, he uses both the H & R Stores brand, as well as the Aristo stainless track, flawless running all day long…simple as that !!!
The only reason I would look to something other than stainless is because of the price increase. I run indoors! I have some brass mixed with almost all Aristo’s stainless track and switches. I had to clean it at first till I found the culprit. I think I had over oiled some piece of equipment. The rails had some black spots. It seemed to be rubber like. I believe that when my MTH challenger pulling a long train hit these spots the front drivers would slip. I cleaned the track. I fixed the loading on the challenger. I haven’t cleaned the track since. I’m getting good adhesion now and could current through the rails.
You are probably outdoors? I can’t tell you how many told me how hard it is to keep the brass rails clean. I’m not much help there, but some told me the current would not pass through the stainless well and they were wrong!!! Everyone tells me how well their stainless holds up. So I don’t know of any other con besides the price. I wonder how nickle silver outside would be?
I’m probably going to put the stainless outside someday and the brass inside if the prices keep going up. I wish they all came with rail clamps included!!!
Well for me it came down to one question? do i want to run my trains all the time or clean my track all the time. i choose ss, don’t think it was a mistake…
There are two big unanswered questions in this discussion:
ONE
Which brass rail are we are we comparing to stainless?
I’ve used several brands, they are VASTLY different when it comes to conductivity and cleaning. So much so that I removed several hundred feet of one brands brass rail and replaced it with another brand of brass rail.
There are thousands of brass alloys. Some brass alloys are used on circuit board contacts because it’s oxide conducts. Other brass alloys are used on door knobs because the oxide is HARD and provides a sort of golden color.
The same is true with brass rail. Some oxidizes brown and still conducts, Cleaning really only involves removing dirt, grease, pollen, etc. Some track oxidizes to a yellow or gold color. The oxide contains silicates and is a very poor conductor. It will require a strong abrasive and hard work to remove. Using an abrasive to clean it scratches the surface, increasing it’s surface area and speedings up the oxidation so it has to be cleaned more often.
So, to compare brass to stainless without saying which brass you are comparing seems useless to me.
TWO
Dirt on the rail is not the huge culprit people make it out to be.
The real culprit is the dirt on the wheels.
(Of course the dirt got on the wheels from the rails.)
To understand this, make an apple pie.
Put a pound of pie crust on a counter, roll it out with a rolling pin. Notice how sometimes the pie dough sticks to the rolling pin, and rolls up around it? The entire rolling pin is covered with dough.
Now, try to roll the dough out to cover the entire counter top. OH! and the counter top is 300 feet long.
If the dough sticks to the rolling pin, it will be 1/4 inch thick. The pin will never touch the counter.
If the dough sticks to the 300 foot counter, it will be so thin and have so many holes that the rolling pin will end up touching bare c
[quote user=“bobgrosh”]
There are two big unanswered questions in this discussion:
ONE
Which brass rail are we are we comparing to stainless?
I’ve used several brands, they are VASTLY different when it comes to conductivity and cleaning. So much so that I removed several hundred feet of one brands brass rail and replaced it with another brand of brass rail.
There are thousands of brass alloys. Some brass alloys are used on circuit board contacts because it’s oxide conducts. Other brass alloys are used on door knobs because the oxide is HARD and provides a sort of golden color.
The same is true with brass rail. Some oxidizes brown and still conducts, Cleaning really only involves removing dirt, grease, pollen, etc. Some track oxidizes to a yellow or gold color. The oxide contains silicates and is a very poor conductor. It will require a strong abrasive and hard work to remove. Using an abrasive to clean it scratches the surface, increasing it’s surface area and speedings up the oxidation so it has to be cleaned more often.
So, to compare brass to stainless without saying which brass you are comparing seems useless to me.
TWO
Dirt on the rail is not the huge culprit people make it out to be.
The real culprit is the dirt on the wheels.
(Of course the dirt got on the wheels from the rails.)
To understand this, make an apple pie.
Put a pound of pie crust on a counter, roll it out with a rolling pin. Notice how sometimes the pie dough sticks to the rolling pin, and rolls up around it? The entire rolling pin is covered with dough.
Now, try to roll the dough out to cover the entire counter top. OH! and the counter top is 300 feet long.
If the dough sticks to the rolling pin, it will be 1/4 inch thick. The pin will never touch the counter.
If the dough sticks to the 300 foot counter, it will be so thin and have so many holes that the rolling pin will
Mark, Got Clouds again,
Well to maybe answer this question about the NAMED BRANDS (LGB), Nickel Silver plated track, I personally have no experience with it…However, I have heard, comments made, that it was a mistake in manufacturing, may have possibly led to part of their recent demise, I’ve heard, the Nickel Silver plating chips off, after some bit of use…so I’ve heard…Can’t substantiate that for sure though, only comments I’ve heard circulated about it.
At present, I am looking to maybe purchase just one set of their #5 switches, with the Nickel Silver plating, I have an area where only that radi would work, and I do want to test this supposed claim I’ve heard, about it chipping …Haven’t been able to locate any, as yet though…anyone out there have a set of these to SELL Nickel Silver plating only ???
I might also just order a set of stainless steel ones in the radi I need, Alice at H&R Trains was telling me just today that a Gent can make what ever switch configuration you need with stainless steel rail…
Anyway back to your initial question, at hand, Brass track, and track power, cleaning all the time, the unmamed brand (Aristo), I would guess this is what is being alluded to here.
As I’ve already mentioned, I do have a few years experience with both brands of brass track, in differing climactic conditions, with the use of, LGB’s engines rolling stock and wheels, USA’s engines rolling stock and wheels, Aristo’s engines rol
Brian,
Don’t think I need to add to that, nor could I have said it any better myself…No clouds there…
Byron C.
I’ve been using aristo stainless for a little over 2 years in my railway with very good success. [tup] I chose the stainless for corrosion resistance to the hard well water we use on the yard and garden and the fact I am not interested in cleaning the track every time I run. (Very high disolved solids, primarily calcium carbonate) There was an earlier mention of aristo rail joiners rusting out in a season or two which I have not seen with the joiners that are still on mine. They appear to be the same stainless material as the rails so I don’t see that rust should ever be a problem.
I run track power and currently have only one power feed on 450+ feet of track with less than 1.5 v of drop anywhere on the track. I did however go to SplitJaw and Aristo clamps on most (60%) of the joints to eliminate cold spots in conductivity with the aristo slide/screw joiner set up.[B)] I have enough clamps to replace the rest, but so far have not needed to do so.
I buy the 8’ flex rail and ties by the box so the earlier comment about being USA/main line only isn’t exactly true, though I did choose the USA tie configuration for my layout. I’ve seen the TDV/H&R trains track and it looks good, though a little shinier than my Aristo. I’ve been told that it will fit the aristo tie sections as well but don’t have any experience with that.
If you choose stainless to extend or replace I don’t think you’ll be disappointed.[2c]
One additional Assessment Mark,
I do happen to have one set of the USA brand Brass #6 switches in my train room, they seem to be using a Brass similar to what Aristo uses, I think…It doesn’t turn color like the LGB brand does…
My main objection is the wide spacing of the ties, as well as the switch machine, I really don’t like either.
However no real problem with cleaning, as I do have them in-doors, I would not put this switch machine out-side though, from the looks of it. Mind you, my personal assessments only here…
I purchased this set, just to personally assess their make-up, and I will not chose to purchase any more of their (Europeon style I guess, wide tie spacing track), maybe it’s narrow gauge tie spacing. I don’t know for sure…
Byron C.
Mark, imrnjr,
The rusting problem that Aristo track experienced years back, was due to the fact that there was a batch of BRASS track made, using regular steel grade screws in the rail connectors, also into the rail through the tie strips on some of their earlier track. BRASS DOESN"T RUST FOLKS…
However, they, ARISTO, gladly/readily replaced all of these screws for me, as well as the problematic, non-UV resistant, tie strips on all of their earliest made track…No questions asked, a whole new CASE of tie strips, no shipping charges for them either…
Byron C.
I got started in this hobby because I inherited a bunch of LGB stuff, mostly starter sets. I have roughly 400 feet of brass track, aristo and LGB and AML mixed.
If I were starting over, I’d go with stainless track. Cleaning would be less of a chore and I’d be less worried about copper pipe thieves! But it’s too late now.
To get to the essence of the question. The club I belong to had LGB Brass track exclusively. We did a display and there wasn’t enough club track to do the layout, so I lent a couple of spare boxes of my Aristo stainless for the display.
Everybody commented about how the trains would speed up when they got on the stainless track. Over the 3 day weekend, the brass had to be cleaned before running each day, but they never touched the stainless.
The club has begun to purchase stainless.