Alright, since the first Tower got shut down, here’s a new one so that you can all go off-topic to your heart’s content. I won’t be participating. The only rules: no flagging and no cussin’. Now have at it!
Firecrown, please don’t ban me for this.
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Comparing (passenger) salaries on Germany’s DB with those here.
“Skilled train and locomotive drivers take home an average of up to €4,600 ($5345) gross monthly in Germany. [For context] as of April 2025, the average gross earnings of full-time employees in Germany are €4,784.($5558)” Pretax income.
https://www.euronews.com/business/2026/03/06/europes-train-drivers-how-do-their-salaries-stack-up
I don’t know average Amtrak monthly salary, but I am guessing more than double?
Didn’t you post details of how the government carefully negotiates with the crews to control the amount they “have” to pay in wages, and what the working conditions will be?
The lok drivers have a union and strikes are far from rare. Amtrak is a quasi-government corporation. Their pay scale is much higher. I seem to recall Sam checking it out and finding it is higher than that of the major freight rails.
From what I’ve seen on forums, Amtrak pays about the same or slightly less than class one freight railroads overall. (Still probably better than in Germany. ) Just like on the freight carriers, some assignments pay more, so even on the same railroad you can have a wide range of salary.
Right now, CN is probably has the highest pay for T&E people. Around $63 hour. When CN took over the Iowa Northern, every railfan seemed to lament the loss. The IANR employees saw their pay rate just about double.
Jeff
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The hourly rate is pretty meaningless because of many other factors. What is the typical UP monthly wage?
I’m not sure what the typical UP wage is because typical itself is hard to define. I tried looking up the average yearly pay for locomotive engineers and that number varied by websites that track such things. Even on specific sites the average was a range.
I would say from the numbers I saw that the average yearly wage for locomotive engineers, system wide, is $110000. Working through freight can make more, yard and most locals make less.
Jeff
While I don’t have a dollar figure - personnel in T&E service have the opportunity make as much money as the can stay marked up and accept calls for duty, of course under these circumstance the individual will have no, repeat NO life outside the railroad.
T&E road pay in many cases is based on the ‘standard day’ which is defined in miles and hours. Most Class 1 carriers have their road crews operating territories where they will earn significantly more than the standard day for their run, in some runs it could be 2 and maybe even 3 days that the crew will earn for completing their run.
Thanks for the research.
It’s like that in the OTR industry on pay also. If you’re someone who lives in your truck doesn’t need to come home has tanker hazmat endorsements I’ve seen wages in the 150k range for experienced drivers. A rookie driver can expect somewhere in the 60 to 70k range anymore hauling dry vans. Reefer pay is between 80 to 110k annually tanker yankers 120 to 150k a year. Gas haulers which are the rarity normally paid hourly with overtime can break 200k. Now UPS linehaul and team drivers are between 150 to 200k each.
Things are getting very interesting in the logistics industry. There’s a push on the legislative side to ban non-domiciled CDLs and non English issued CDLs as a whole. If it passes now that they’ve finally got a number of all the driver’s affected it over 630k drivers removed or 20 percent of all trucks from the road.
Sounds like transportation costs by truck will increase. This should have used a gradual program or revoking licensed of all driver with accidents or who couldn’t pass the English written exam.
Another 2014 thread resurrected.
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Transportation costs overall will go up. There’s not going to be enough drivers for all the loads that will need to be moved. There’s going to be way more demand for service than the entire industry can provide for between 6 months to a year. It will take that long for training programs and carriers with government assistance to close some of the shortage.
Most carriers won’t even consider you for employment if you have any major violations on your driving record. Anymore a major accident is considered a death sentence for your career unless the dash cams prove otherwise. A very close friend of mine we’ve been friends for 30 years now was involved in a very serious injury accident. He thought his career was over it was that bad. 4.5 million miles without even a speeding ticket or even a logbook violation gone in an instant. He had the green light to turn in the Houston area. Car ran the red light slamming into his passenger side of his truck. The 4 year old kid in the backseat wasn’t in any kind of safety seat and ended up paralyzed from the chest down. The mother driving blew .18 and was arrested after she got out of surgery herself for a busted femur and lower arm.
They of course are suing but his carrier one of the biggest mega fleets is basically telling their lawyer see you in court. What sucks for my friend is that he had just bought the truck 2 weeks before the accident happened and it was totaled in the accident with a crushed DPF system and broken passenger frame rail and cab and body damage. Brand new Volvo 860 worth 200k.
With the price of fuel increasing, that will add even more to transportation costs.
Fuel costs are always a variable in the logistics industry. Right now given what’s going on in Iran and the Persian Gulf area speculation is driving costs up. However given 3 things I don’t think these are going to last. 1 anything that had an Iranian flag on it as a naval vessel is afloat to attack anything in this area is left or mine is zero. 2 OPEC is increasing production. 3 there was a release of 400 million barrels from the strategic reserve to calm down the market.
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Twenty-four hours after the International Energy Agency (IEA) announced a 400 million-barrel release from the Group of Seven nations’ strategic petroleum reserves, oil prices surged into the mid $90s per barrel once again.
The war in Iran is now “creating the largest supply disruption in the history of the global oil market,” the IEA said in a report on Thursday, noting that 7.5% of global supply has now been disrupted. Two oil tankers in Straits are burning.
Fertilizer supplies are also impacted, so prices increase.
The crux of the oil problem
“Unanticipated” events!
Big unanticipated observation: All the bulk carriers lined up off Baltimore to load… coal.
Where are the trains that will be bringing this coal?