Every day that I pass thru a major bus or train station there are groups of Amish. As it turns out there are about 180,000 of these folk who depend on Greyhound and or Amtrak to get them around. For several years there has been a mass migration of amish out of PA and OH as land prices and taxes have forced them off there homesteads. For Amtrak and Greyhound to ignore this population by cutting rural stations and routes is a slap in the face to them and the bottom line. They are one of many groups that have to use ground transport like students,senior citizens,disabled and fixed income people and those that live nowhere near a airport.
Within the United States there are identifiable groups that have come to depend on Amtrak for their transportation. One group is those who for religious reasons use Amtrak. Many people with disabilities depend on Amtrak. Many people in rural areas have no other transportation available to them. Students going to college often use Amtrak’s generous baggage allowance. Older Americans use Amtrak in disproportionate numbers.
Bus service becomes increasingly problematical. Testifying before the Congress on March 5 Amtrak President Joe Boardmen pointed out that from 2005 to 2011 bus service to rural areas declined by 11 per cent over all. Some states have much greater declines in bus service. Also, today increasing numbers of buses are operated by discount bus companies. These companies structure their service so they are not required to comply with the Americans with Disabilities Act. Many do not provide accessible restrooms. A significant proportion of buses are simply not available to people with mobility impairments. Even where accessible bus service does exist we do not know how long the private sector will be willing or able to provide it.
The number of rural areas served by air service is also declining as deregulation as forced may air carriers out of business.
For increasing numbers of people Amtrak is their only transportation. And for another group they don’t even have Amtrak; they simply have no transportation to distant places.
I don’t think the government’s provision of transportation services to a group who cannot own automobiles because of religious beliefs would be constitutional unless said services were otherwise warranted.
The “mass migration” isn’t due to inability to pay taxes, it’s population growth. There just isn’t more land for them to buy to farm. Many have gone into owning/working in other industries. &nb
The “mass migration” is also a part of the phenomenon of many young Amish leaving the faith and community and moving to other places, usually urban areas. Some Amish are also able to drive vehicles which they borrow from “Auslanders” (foreigners = non-Amish).
Not being an expert on the German Anabaptists of which the Amish and their rules are one particular sect (I encountered some prosperous farmers with a brand new Ford Super Duty Turbo Diesel truck at Fleet Farm wearing “Amish” garb, but they may be of one of the other Anabaptist groups), guess I have some questions.
So, one is supposed to not own or drive a car, but it is OK to ride Amtrak or Lamars (Greyhound), which uses modern combustion engines, but it is not OK to get a ride from someone or ride an airplane?
This “slap in the face” remark also goes kind of far inasmuch that one particular branch of a religion (Amish are just one group of German Anabaptists – many other Anabaptists are hardworking prosperous people who drive late model vehicles) chooses to forgo personal combustion engines, as a matter of piety through foregoing worldly luxuries or whatever devotional reason, so Amtrak service (Diesel powered) becomes some kind of 1st Amendment respect for someone’s religion question?
Certainly Amtrak was not created because of anyone’s religious beliefs. Yet the fact is that some who ride Amtrak do so because of their religious beliefs. I would argue that it is not valid for us to make our own personal judgments about those beliefs. However, there is a question about whether or not their beliefs should be considered in deciding whether or not to continue Amtrak routes.
No one is belittling the Amish. However, it is rather a stretch of the 1st amendment and Amtrak’s charter to let religion be a factor in deciding on a subsidized rail service.
Most of the Amish communities I am familiar with do not have Amtrak stations within buggy distance, and would need some form of motorized conveyance to be able to utilize Amtrak.
My understanding of the Amish, they cannot own automobiles, have no electricy at their homes, no indoor plumbing or toilet facilities.
However, they are permitted the use of electric lights, electronics, and power tools in the operation of their businesses.
Mennonites, who inhabit the same areas as Amish and have a similar manner of dress, are permitted to own and operate automobiles.
The ‘Amish Mafia’ show broadcast on the Discovery Channel offers some insights into a Amish community. How accurate it is, is open to question.
I was wondering if anyone would notice that, Schlimm. But for you I was planning to start a new religion – The Righteous Rail Riders – and insist that any attempt to alter Amtrak would be an offense against my freedom of religion.
I apologize for my attempt to maintain a proper perspective here Schlimm. However, I think Bonas makes a very valid point. The Amish are one group of Americans. Dismissing their needs on the basis of stereotypes about their beliefs is, in my view, a mistake that goes beyond agreeing or disagreeing about Amtrak.
I am seeing the NARP style of passenger train advocacy, where we come up with any reason we can think of as a valid reason to direct public money towards passenger trains, throw all of those reasons against the wall, and see what sticks.
I mean, who is engaged in stereotypes? There are a lot of people who wear “Amish” clothes who are not Amish. But with the style of commentary around here, I suppose someone around here is going to tell me that what I know about Anabaptists from a Mennonite lay teacher of an adult Sunday School is all wrong and full of stereotypes.
How do you know the people at the train station are Amish rather than members of one of the other Anabaptist groups with different rules? How do you know that the folks in Amish clothes at the train station are there because of their stricture against automobiles? Maybe that train station is located where there is a concentration of Anabaptists wearing traditional clothes and that their usage of Amtrak is no different than people of other faith traditions?
And how is it that the Constitution granting people the freedom to practice their religion as they see fit is turned around to a moral obligation on my part to contribute public money at very high rates of subsidy to facilitate that lifestyle?
I believe there is a social obligation to persons in need, both at the individual and governmental level, but the individual response is a moral one whereas the collective or governmental response is justified more by utilitarian conce
I think Paul M is on to something there. The cynic in me wonders if it is just a coincidence that this Amish thread shows up shortly after the “Save the Pennsylvanian!” threads have been reiterated over and over? It does serve an area where or near where a good number of Amish and Mennonites have lived, so is this yet another justification for running a train that seems fairly unneeded compared to the needs of other, not/never-served-by- Amtrak areas?
As I understand your position you consider government appropriations to Amtrak as an unwarranted subsidy to riders for no particular reason at all. The fact that some Amtrak riders are fairly affluent itself argues against that subsidy.
My own position is that Amtrak is an important part of our over all transportation system and Amtrak appropriations are needed to maintain that part.
I doubt we shall ever see eye to eye on this issue. I think all we can do is agree to disagree.
I am deliberately not commenting on the religious issue because I feel uncomfortable discussing other people’s religious beliefs.
In the long term this is all probably a moot point. I’d be amazed if in 100 years time there are any Amish at all, at least not how we understand the term today. It’s evolution. As the country becomes more “homogenized” any local cultures are going to have to be VERY strong to survive.
It’s not wrong, it’s not right, it’s just the way it is. At any rate I won’t be here to find out if I was correct.
Amish Mafia show is 100% road apples. It’s entertaining and creative - but complete BS.
Mennonites range from very strict (even stricter than most amish) to very casual to the point you wouldn’t even know they were Mennonite unless they told you.
As far as Amish, a lot depends on their local bishops. Many of them do have smartphones, computers, hire an Englishmen if they want to drive somewhere, or just use their kids’ cars. The kids don’t join the church until they are adults. They won’t use a gas-powered tractor to spray weeds, but they’ll use a horse-powered wagon with a gas-powered weed sprayer strapped to it. There is a lot of picking and choosing. There’s also a lot of local strife about how certain laws and regulations are enforced (or more appropriately) not enforced in the Amish community. Things like child labor, OSHA regs, sewage treatment, food safety, and puppy mills. They are Amtrak su
You cant ignore your base customers- Amish,Students, Senoir Citizens(There are more now then ever),Disabled,people who live in rural communitys, Familys traveling together and folks who live in major citys who just dont have cars. Amtrak has been trying to go after the buisness traveler when in fact is has a pool of 40 million people that ride the greyhound bus and train every year. I have also noticed that connecting flights from small airports to major hubs can be as much as 500.00 a ticket like Waterloo IA to Chicago. Amtrak should stop trying to be a airline and just concentrate on being a good old fasioned railroad with comfy wide seats that you can sleep in no matter how big you are
Actually Amtrak has been quite successful in recruiting more customers. It has been especially successful in recent years. Today it has more customers than ever.