When I lived in NY near the NYC Harlem line I recall the third rail had a wooden “cap” over the top when it ran near where people could come in contact with it while crossing the tracks. This normally did the trick but every year you would (and likely still do) hear of some jerk getting himself killed by being stupid and stepping right on the unprotected third rail…YOU PLAY WITH MATCHES YOU WILL GET BURNED.
Chicago’s Lake Street El, in the late 40’s, still had overhead when it came down to ground level. I was in the Navy in 45-46 and would watch the conductor raise the pole as we descended the grade from Laramie to Central. There was a small yard at the end of the line just west of Harlem Ave (Forest Park station) that had ground level 3rd rail for ease of switching.
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Art
Years ago I used to work for a guy maintaining a bunch of television translators. Several times a year we had to de-ice the antennaes on top of a 9800’ mountain. We used to do it with a 12 guage shotgun and #7 shot. It was quite an effective way to remove ice.
Chad: at Santa Fe and Third, you will recall the old freight houses that SCRRA/RTD/ Metro converted into offices and workshops. - On the other side from Santa Fe of those buildings is the Red Line MTCE Facility. From 1992-1996 I knew that neighborhood as part of my territory, including the vegitable spurs, the Coke Lead, First Street Yard, 7th Street, Mission Tower, Redondo, Washington Auto Dock and all that fun stuff. You see from Mission Tower to Hobart in film and TV all the time…The chase down the tracks in “Diary of an Invisible Man” (Chevy Chase) was done on the main line between Redondo and mission Tower…The camera for that was strapped/attached to one of my track supervisor’s hi-rail trucks.
For Level Crossings (grade?) in the UK the 3rd rail is basically gapped and the trains coast over picking up power on the t’other side. Indeed it is common for certain lines in the leafier parts of the South East of England (where the 3rd rail is) to have gaps for badgers and various other forms of wildlife. Aluminium conductor is becoming prevalent as well.
There is a line which runs through the centre of London from Farringdon through the Snow Hill tunnels to Blackfriars. The units which use this are dual voltage AC/DC and many a giggle was heard in West Hampstead PSB when over the radio a driver reported that he had forgotten to lower the pan and switch…as the pan fell off and the train gapped between the two systems…
Right, I rode several times from Eastborne to London on what was a very similar operation to the old CA&E in Chicago – except the CA&E was faster. The English operation still had manual signal towers for each crossing.
…the pan falling off as the entrance to the 3rd rail section was in a tunnel.
There still are manual signalboxes in that part of Sussex and West Kent. However they are becoming an endangered species.
Incidentally Network Rail (infrastructure owner) is currently spending the best part of a £1bn on upgrading the power supplies thru the 3rd rail as the latest generation of EMUS are rather thirsty beasts.
As one who works around electric engines, the danger is always there that you’ll get hit with a high dose of electricity. The differences between ac and dc is somewhat simple. In the case of dc cantenary or third rail, you most certainly have to touch it, in order for it to kill you. Once you touch a dc circuit AND are grounded(touching anything leading back to the earth), you’ll be well done before the circuit breakers trip. In other words, you’ve become part of that circuit. Ac however, has a tendency to either throw you back or lock you into the path. If you get within a certain distance from a high powered line, depending on the voltage, ac will have a tendency to arc(shoot a bolt of lightning) toward the object(you). I’ve heard horror stories of people whom are not familiar with the catenary system that the Northeast Corridor railroads have, and have been cooked or sometimes blown apart by the arc. Yet, I know that the New York City transit electrical workers sometimes work on the third rail while it’s still live. Especially, if it’s a important transit line that can’t be shut down for many hours. Another thing that people don’t realize is this, that just because that third rail shoe/slipper, or pantograph isn’t touching anything, as long as any other shoe or pantograph is touching the third rail or catenary, the ENTIRE car’s or locomotive’s components are HOT!! There are electrical cables called buses which carry the electricity throughout the underside or the roof of the vehicle. As long as a transit railcar has one shoe or pantograph touching, that ENTIRE vehicle’s electrical components are electrified!! Take heed and don’t think things look safe just because… Always be vigilant around any railroad property!!
GLENN
A R E A L RAILROADER!!!
A R E A L AMTRAKER!!!
That’s about the same time I was hanging out down there. I don’t recall seeing that movie. I’ll have to check it out. I didn’t do much railfanning in that part of town as I was usually there at night and it’s not exactly the best of areas. I lived in Van Nuys right behind the Budweiser brewery just a stones throw from Gemco yard. I mostly railfan out of town where I could relax and target shoot between trains but I did hang out at Taylor yard a lot and at Glendale. Once in a while I would go hang out at Hobart too.
Personally I do not encourage third rails…they are dangerous and are on all of the time. In many stations the only thing that is blocking you from the third rail is a train in the station…when they’re isn’t one, you just have to make sure you don’t step off the platform! Although, it’s probably cheaper than installing catenary…no gantries or wires or pantographs. But, at leased overhead wires aren’t very dangerous.[^]
Regarding overhead wires being less dangerous - true if all things are equal (ie. not looking to touch a live conductor)…however, if some kids want to find trouble, they can and will. I grew up along a PRR commuter line near Philadelphia, PA. Local youths realized that throwing wire cables up into the catenary would make a great light show when the pantograph of the next passing train caught it and it made contact with the MU car’s roof. One kid was killed when the “trick” backfired and the cable arced between his outstreched arm, the thrown cable and the live 11,000 volt AC line.
Additionally, most parents admoni***heir kids to stay off of the tracks (to avoid being hit by a passing train), including the third rail lines like the Philadelphia and Western (ie. interurban line) that is not fenced, but is grade separated from highways.
Thank you paulsafety for your added comments about the dangers of playing near “LIVE” electrical lines. Anyone who thinks that electricity can’t hurt you, isn’t playing with a full deck. I can tell you from first hand experience, that electricity doesn’t tickle, especially when it’s traveling thoughout your body before it goes to ground. I got hit with 480 vac, AND THAT WAS NOT FUN!! I felt that juice cross my heart and the only thing that saved me was the fact that the amperes weren’t that strong and I was able to let go of the side of the locomotive(that was the ground). I’ve witnessed people getting thrown across the deck of a military amphibious landing craft when I was in the Army in Virginia. Those vessels used the same 480 vac electrical cable hook ups like on the Amtrak trains, when in port and they didn’t want to run the generators for electricity. So, for those that still think electricity is a toy, then by all means touch a ‘hot’ circuit and see what you might get. Even something like a car’s battery may not put out alot of volts, but it could put out enough amperes to stop your heart. Once again, thank you very much paulsafety.
GLENN
A R E A L RAILROADER!!!
A R E A L AMTRAKER!!!
The Laural Line, Lackawanna and Wyoming Valley, part of right of way used by the trolley museum and operating line adjacent to Steamtown, used third rail for the most part, but used trolley wire on entrance ot Wilksbarre, with the change over much like that on the North Shore. Of course the New Haven line trains out of Grand Central still switch from dc 650V third rail to ac overhead wire, now it’s 12,500V 60Hz ac, and it is done on the fly at Mt. Vernon instead of Woodlawn. The Blue Line in Boston stays at the same current and voltage, also 550-650V dc, but goes from third rail to catenary at Airport Station, used to be at Maverick Station.
Mention was made of the third rail on the Sacremento Northern. The very most north portion of the line, in the town of Chico, where the through interurban trains from Oakland and later San Francisco ended thei runs, had trolley wire. Sacramento Northern also provided the local streetcar service which lasted during WWII (as did their local streetcar service in Sacramento, where two other companies also provided local streetcar service), even though the interurban passenger service was discontinued before the war, with electric freight service continued for many years. To get the little 4-wheel Birney cars to the shops for overhaul, temporary third rail shoes were applied, possibly the only 4-wheel Birney cars that ever ran with third rail. A good candidate for the shortest trains, yes of course they ran as extras and carried markers. The SN was always part of the National Network.
The LIRR has many, many, many miles of ground level 3rd rail & so far I have heard of very few LI citizens being fried. [:o)][:D][:)]
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Originally posted by chad thomas
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QUOTE: Originally posted by spbed
The LIRR has many, many, many miles of ground level 3rd rail & so far I have heard of very few LI citizens being fried. [:o)][:D][:)]
Likely because as kids most NYC area residents are taught to respect the third rail OR DIE by their parents, but folks from outside third rail territory can never really be appreciative of this issue the way NYC area residents (or former residents like me) are.
All LIRR third rail installations and currently all subway, Staten Island, and PATH third rail installations have top protection boards. These are all compatable top-contact third rail installations. Metro-North stayed with the New York Central under-running third rail, and all installations also have protection, but some is now plastic instead of wood. All new third rail installations on Metro North have plastic that surrounds the third rail except for the bottom contact surface and a small clearance on each side.
The Skokie Swift was the last conversion. The Evanston/Wilmet trains used to run under catenary as well. The poles went up at Howard for everything going north.
The Ravenswood and Douglass Park lines also have 3rd rail ground level running with grade crossings and have for many years. The crossings in Cicero had no special gates to keep people off the tracks, but did have warning signs. I haven’t been there in quite a while so things may have changed.
I believe CTA maintenance people are required to wear rubber soled shoes. It may be against the rules, but I remember seeing CTA guys step on the 3rd rail, usually to get down from subway platforms to the track. That may be where the urban legends about the rail not being live except when a train is present got started.
There was a period of time when poles went up half way to Dempster Street both for the Skokie Swift, as you remember, and earlier for the North Shore’s Skokie Valley Line, which I remember. At least after WWII, possibly earlier, the poles did not go up at Howard Street either for the Evanston Trains or for the Shore Line. There were a few stations north of Howard Street that had third rail, I think one was Main Street, Evanston, and the transition to trolley wire was when both the North Shore Shore Line and the Evanston shuttle and expresses came down off the embankment onto ground level. If my memory is incorrect on this issue correct me; I could be mistaken. There was wire at Howard Street on the Southbound local track and it was used by CTA and North Shore freight trains, to a spur that went down to ground level north of either Wilson (my best guess) or Belmont. I think there was a small on-grade freight yard and in interchange track with one of the steam railroads, probably the Milwaukee.
The Evanston (Purple) line of CTA was direct suspension trolley wire (never catenary) north of South Blvd and third rail south to Howard St. The westernmost track of what is now the Red Line was formerly equipped with catenary overhead between Howard and Wilson for its contract freight operation.
CTA has about twenty or so grade crossings on the outer ends of the Douglas Park (Blue) and Ravenswood (Brown) lines in addition to those on the Skokie Swift and outer end of the Evanston line. The Ravenswood and Douglas Park lines were built at grade before the areas became built up. Grade crossings were eliminated on the Lake Street (Green) line through Oak Park in 1962 when it was relocated onto the existing C&NW embankment. More grade crossings through Oak Park (including one over the B&OCT) were eliminated when the Garfield Park line was relocated into the median of the Congress (now Eisenhower) Expressway as the Congress line in the mid-1950’s.
Yes but the side the shoe touches is completely exposed otherwise the train would not receive power. If you just touch that exposed side you are history[:o)]
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Originally posted by daveklepper