I read with great interest the opinions of Brianel027 on the thoughts of a silent majority of us in the 027 segment of O gauge. Just how many of us are out there?
Some background - My journey in O gauge began in 1986 when my son, then 4, was provided a Lionel 027 starter set (I never had a Lionel set when a youngster… but always wanted one). From that point on we began, along with another son later on, to build our 10 x 10 layout and our railroad empire. This was at a time that Richard Kughn made a significant contribution to the hobby. Naturally we pursued the cost conscious 027 direction, mainly Lionel MPC and LTI. (Postwar was a bit pricy). Today, I am not about to destroy what we created together in over 15 + years, so keeping with 027 is still my preference, and is a requirement for me to be able to run on our home layout. For awhile, not a whole lot was offered out there in new products (scale being predominant). I now actively look for MPC ( even though some have described it as undesirable) and LTI era pieces. If you have an eye on realism, you can surely find it in 027, you just need to be particular.
Now for the question… are there more of us focussed on 027 out there? Are we truely a silent majority or fastly becoming a minority with most of us converting to scale? While there are a great many starter sets being sold (now with greater radius), the evolution to scale is questionable just as many of those folks may not continue on in model railroading. I will say in my experience of co-founding a regional O gauge club, we have many scale enthusiasts, yet a slight group of the 027. However, more importantly, what makes this club successful is the ability of all of us to be tolerant of our preferences and enjoy the fun of the O gauge hobby. How many 027 starters have stuck with it? What prompts this is the recent Williams sale, and the success of RMT, Atlas Industrial Rail, etc.&
I stayed with 0-27 from 1948 until about 1970. I began to get equipment that wouldn’t take 0-27 curves or hung up on the switches so switched to O-gauge tubular, and when I joined Lionel’s Century Club II I had to look into 54 and 72 inch diameter curves. I have fond memories or my first layout in the basement at home which eventually took up about 40 percent of the basement and was all 0-27. I had another 0-27 layout in Ohio for about three years and switched to O guge when I moved to Florida. I have 2 loops of FasTrak 4 loops of Gargraves-plastice ties, and 4 loops of tubular. FasTrak is fine but hard to deal with if you get to a spot and need a 2 3/4 inch piece of track. Cutting gets dicey. A dremel tool on tubular is no problem-o!!!
O27 is all I need. There is so much product out there from Prewar, and Postwar, I do not even need, nor want the newer stuff. Now if the manufacturers would realize the potential; that could be a different story.
I plan on using 080 and 072 curves for my main lines and 042 for switching yards but will have both 027 and 0 gauge trains, I buy what ever catches my eye( mostly CSX,CHessie,C&O,B&O,NS,NW and PRR oh yeah and CONRAIL) I started collecting starter sets from lionel I have a two 4-4-2 in Chessie and in NYC will pick up sets later on with same loco but different road names. The longest loco I have is the k-line/lionel SD70M(CSX of course)
I had lionel 027 in the '50s, HO scale in the '60s.I restarted model railroading in the '80s with HO but switched to 027.you can put 027 in the same space of N guage.Try putting HO or O scale on 30" wide banquet tables. Its no problem with 027.Maybe the mfg’s should market 027 with tubuler track for small spaces like apartments.
I’ve been watching the “3-rail scale” movement with amusement (3-rail Proto 48 must be next–if O gauge track being 3.5 scale inches too wide doesn’t bother someone, it should). I’m an O27 guy. I don’t have room for O72 curves, let alone O96, O108 and other monster curves required for large scale equipment, and I never will. I’ve learned how to be happy with what I have and can afford.
It should be noted that although Lionel is shipping O36 track in its starter sets now, a lot of the scale equipment still won’t run even on O36. I hear some people complain about how scale equipment looks on O72. “Traditional” sized stuff has a long life to live in starter sets.
I still have a bitter taste in my mouth from an incident where some people nearly got into a fistfight at a club. The argument was over the design of the yard. One person wanted the yard to be able to facilitate a Big Boy (or at least a Challenger) as a switching engine. The other said that was impossible. The irony was a bit amusing (the UP didn’t use Challengers and Big Boys that way because it was impractical). This wasn’t about realism. This was about allowing a handful of people to show off their $1200 locomotives.
I went home and enjoyed my 2026 and 2037 on my 8x8 layout. And I never went back.
DAVE GOOD FOR YOU. I still run all my 0-27 stuff on my two main lines. Tracks 1 and 4 powered by the new ZW. I love running this stuff, with my power drops every 4 feet its like having cruise control, I just set it and don’t have to adjust it for a couple of hours. Its just runs and runs, no problems. Sometime this is a no problems solution to just enjoying the trains run.
Where is there a shortage of O-27? I have never seen it so plentiful at the 7 LHS’s that I visit. I will admitt I have found a lot of five to 10 year old stuff at one of the local shops. Great stuff still in boxes that have never been open.
I also run some scale such as the MTH Premier engines and 100 Ton Premier grain rolling stock. Ok so I do run it all on 0-36 & 0-42. My track radius does limit my selection to some degree but then so does my current room size. However I can find just about what ever I want in just about any road name.
It may appear that all of the new diesel runs on atv least 0-31 but that just isn’t true. Lionel has some interesting traditional that runs on 0-27. Some even have dual motors. Their lineup of traditional steam is impressive for 0-27 with my personal favorite the Mikado. There standard rolling stock will all run on 0-27.
MTH has an impressive line up of rolling stock that will do just fine on 0-27. While I can say from experience I would bet a lot of their steam engines might do just fine on 0-27 even though they are lsited as 0-31. I have a feeling even the 0-31 diesel’s might do just fine in addition.
Other companies offer still more choices for the 0-27 along with the older Post War stuff. I do run a lot of my scale diesel’s on 0-36 such as the MTH Premier GP9’s. The nice thing is that they look pretty nice making the curves. MTH does have a lot of Premier that will use 0-36 with no problems.
I may not be able to run the larger scale engines such as the GG1, SD 70, 2-6-6-4, Challenger or the 4-12-2 but my choices are still very good without those.
The neat thing about 0-27 is you can run it on anything. the reason I did go to 0-3g and 0-42 was so that I could operate some of the scale engines that I liked. However if I didn’t have the scale bug I would of keep to 0-27 and been just as happy. I’m cheap so the bug has not pushed me to consider the larger more expensive engines.
We only have 027, save for one scale State of Maine car I bought. It’s a display piece now. I find 027 to be plentifull, inexpensive, uncomplicated, and fun. It looks great on a small layout like ours. Not knocking other’s choices. If scale makes some happy, good for them.
I recently purchased a couple of older scale box cars…inadvertently, because of the road names. They look at home with the Christmas Dump car(s), but other than that they stay boxed. I simply don’t have the room or the budget for Scale.
I will stay with the PW O27, but also ventured into the modern O27, and MPC for the road names. I will say the modern 6464 box cars are wonderful runners. The MPC’s are too light, and have to be placed in the right spot within a PW train or will derail.
I don’t mind that the scale is off or the 3-rails …If I wanted Scale I’d be buying Atlas DC 2-rail, and focus on realism. I believe there is a developing market for scale …but I like the Lionel PW TOY trains, and the 3-rails. I also enjoy seeing Pre-War trains but they’re not for me.
Does anyone know why the O27 was designed? Was it based on the origional ping pong table layout size, methodology, and the Scale was shrunk to fit?
History is fuzzy when it comes to your question. Most people credit Lionel but 0-27 track was first used by Ives then later AC Gilbert for his American Flyer sets.
American Flyer is given credit for making it a standard during the later part of the depression. So maybe it might of become popular out of economics but that would be just a guess. Later after the war both Marx and Lionel started to use it exclusively for their starter sets.
Who know maybe if it wasn’t for two World Wars Germany may have set all the standards for electric trains and things as we know it might of been different.
I run 3 rail scale equipment and some 2-rail as well, and am planning to use Atlas code 148 2-rail track with a concealed stud rail in the center for my permanent track. But for now I’m using 027 track just because it’s so easy to set it up and reconfigure as needed. I use K-Line 072 curves on my outside mainline and a combination of 072 and 054 for the inside main, and my scale locos and long freight cars have little problem negotiating these ‘tight’ 36" radius curves.
The low-profile K-Line 042 switches make setting up a yard easy (as opposed to those problematic Lionel 042 switches, which derail my long cars with their clunky motor housings-poor design), but I still had to break out the cut off tool to make some fitter pieces in some spots.
I will agree with the scale purists that long cars like 21" passenger cars and 20" flat cars look ungainly on even 072 curves, but the 027 track does work well and satisfies my need to run trains while I design my permanent track plan. My main focus now is on running my trains, not so much on track- but at some point I will switch over to the scale track and 60" radius curves when I move my layout down to my garage.
If you like 042 or 120 curves, 027 or scale equipment, more power to you. The main thing is that you’re happy with your set up and it works for you.
Like a lot of others, I started out using 027, but have gradually changed over to larger curves and scale engines and rolling stock, because I have the space. Nothing wrong with O27, and Atlas had an O27 layout in operation at York that looked and ran great. The new steam engine they have for 027 is very nice. One thing, even though they call their stuff O27, the starter sets come with 036 track ? [:-^] The new Industrial rail track is nice but I don’t see it listed in 027, they did, not sure if they still do, make their regular track in 027. I do still have some 027 rolling stock on my layout as most of my stuff is based on the mid 50s time period and the rolling stock was smaller than the modern stuff. The two local shops that I buy the most from have more 027 than scale stuff in stock so it must sell.
To each his own, buy and run what you like, that’s what makes the hobby so much fun.
For me, my choice for 027 was primarily a space issue. I just built my first permanent layout this summer and its all 027 tubular track. Thank goodness for it or else I probably would still be “layoutless”. As others have said, it is affordable, flexible, and available. But for me, I’m grateful for this size since it does provide more options for those of us with limited space.
I enjoy tubular 027 Lionel Postwar(and a bit beyond) for 3 reasons. That was my first trainset as a child (the nostalgia factor). On my present 5’ x 9’ layout it gives me more layout room. It’s the least expensive way to go.
If I become interested in scale, I would chose HO since I don’t have a lot of room to work with and there is a lot of scale looking equipment and accessories in HO out there. You really need a big layout for scale O gauge to look right, and a lot of money too.
I have the feeling that 027 owners and operators are the silent majority. I’ll bet there are all kinds of 027 layouts and temporary setups by owners who don’t take the hobby as serious as most on this forum and just run their trains and have fun.
It sure is a big-tent hobby - I’ve stuck with 027 since my first train set. I like the look; like Jim mentioned, it sure is affordable; it’s great for trolleys and other traction - I am surprised at what actually runs on its curves. Frankly, I also like the self-limiting factor for me - where I run shorter units and trains…
I was up to 50 or so 027 cars in the late 80s and then bought some scale Weaver BN hopper cars and got Weaver plastic 3 rail trucks for them. This set me off onto selling almost all of my 027 accept a few favorites and cars from my brothers Pennsy set from the 70s. All the while I was broke most of the time and the money didn’t go “back” into more trains. What a shame. My plan was to buy no more 027 anything. Not being good at finishing kits and finding them too light to run with the rest of my cars I sold and traded all the kit O scale and have bought a few built scale cars. I now have 8 plastic 3 rail scale cars plus 2 nice wood Westbrook cars I need to put 3 rail trucks on (less complicated). I did get a Wisconsin Central starter set at Menards about 3 years ago. I have it sitting next to my DMIR GP9 and 8 scale cars behind it. I think they look better when one train is all 027 and another is all scale cars. Here and there I might buy some more 027 but like the realism and more realistic colors of scale cars.
I use O-27 type track with 42 "and 54"curves and K-Line O-42 switches.
Locos and rolling stock from 1946 to present is operated,sometimes with all O-27 type cars,all scale type or mixed.Whatever I want.It’s mine.
In the 1950’s and 60’s real railroads ran all kinds of trains with cars from the 20’s up.Today trains do not seem to cover as wide a span.Development of larger cars and heavier rail combined with economics and safety rules have stopped this.
I like tubular track for it’s ease of assembly and O-27 because it is not as high as O tubular.
Yes I know that there is much more realistic track made,but I like what I have.
Ives was using O27 track in the 1930s, long before toy train makers gave scale much condiseration. Why they chose that particular track diameter is probably lost to history but the small cars they were making worked fine on that track, and its diameter was smaller than Standard and 1 Gauge.
This is just a guess on my part, but I suspect AC Gilbert noticed the starter-set-sized stuff was close in size to the emerging 1:64 S scale, and decided to formalize it. Some people credit this as the invention of modern O27, but he shipped his 1:64 trains with 40" diameter track. Some of that AF 1:64 O gauge stuff won’t run on O27 track. I learned that the hard way when a friend of mine brought his old AF steamer over for me to refurbish for him last year and I had to run it on my O42 loop. It did fine on my O34 loop except I had a single O27 switch on it, and it couldn’t make it through that switch.
Marx was quick to copy AF with their 3/16 line. A lot of Lionel and Marx postwar O27 stuff is close to 1:64 scale (except for the trucks) but some of it is slightly oversized. Bigger trains appeared to be a better value, so the two companies seem to have played fast and loose with the scale of some of their cars. And of course the only difference between some postwar O27 and O31 engines was the stamping on the bottom, and the price.
The differences drive some people crazy, but an awful lot of us don’t seem to mind. I think if I’m going to nitpick over details, I might as well just go all the way to Proto 48 (2-rail Proto 48, that is… ahem.) and be done with it.