tie size

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
1

For On30 what size ties would you recommend?
What were some of the sizes on the real 30 inch RR’s? Anyone know this?
Mostly curious. I have been using 8 x 12 inch by 6 foot ties so far.
Thanks ahead of time for the info.

2

Don’t know for US but you need to specify between permanent road (eg — and Rangely Lakes) or logging/industrial/quarry line. Possibly also era.

Logging lines frequently used cut lengths of tree of suitable diameter or just sawed big logs the minimum to give e rough tie. Full blown RR tended to at least start with nicely cut ties - gave a good impression to the customers. You should be able to estomate how far outside the gauge ties extend from head-on pics of locos. The other two dimensions … depth -doesn’t matter as you will ballast… width - ? - what looks right.

A lot of quarries and industrial used full RR ties cut in half in UK… occasionally new often recycled with the assorted holes from original use in one end of each half tie.

Hope this helps.

3

Atlas HO code 100 flex track has the closest measurements to On30 narrow gauge ties than any other ready made track made, including the Peco. The Peco is not 1/48. It is 1/43 track modeled off UK tramway track, and is horribly out of scale for On30. You will likely get a lot of arguement on this, but take the measurements for yourself, then you’ll know. If Harold sees this, maybe he’ll throw in his 2 cents. He’s da man.

4

On30 is a cross between 2 and 3 ft gauge. Most of the stuff seems to be more 3 ft than 2 ft. In general narrow gauge used smaller, shorter ties, more widely spaced than standard gauge. If you used 6"x8", 6ft long, on 24" centers you should be okay. If you have a favorite narrow gauge prototype you could follow their practices - maybe shorten the ties by 6" for a 3ft gauge or lengthen them 6" for a 2 ft gauge.
Enjoy
Paul

5

Thanks guys. Was hoping for more specifics as I am hoping to get mine started in about 3 months so was wanting to know what to shoot for. I was thinking of going a bit more protoypical this time.
I am looking to make a small mainline [to and from a mine] and a tiny yard.

6

lol thanks IRONROOSTER we posted at the same time almost. Anyhow that was what I had in mind. I appreciate that. [:D] [tup]

7

If I remember correctly, narrow gauge ties were 6" X 6"X 6’ on 18" centers. The atlas flex measurements are the same, except they measure out on 15" centers, and of course, fall just a tad short. I think my measurement quotes are correct. Again, if Harold sees this, he can be a big help. Like I said, remove all doubt, and measure for yourself. Do the research. You’ll see.

8

Early logging railroads commonly used hand hewn ties from logs.

9

I got this from a narrow gauge forum

According to the C&S Tiem and Timber Spec’s book, Quote:
"The following varieties of timber will be accepted for Narrow Gauge
ties
1- Red spruce
2- Yellow Pine
No White Pine, Whie Spruce of Balsom Fir wil be accepted. No ties
will be accepted cut from burned or dead timber, except Pinon in good
condition, which will be accepted if tied fill allother reqirements
in the specifications

All ties must be (6) inches thick, (6) inches wide on the face and (6
1/2) feet long
ies hewn n all four sides, and also sawed ties muct be (6) inches
thick, (6) inches wide and (6 1/2) feet long.

Whe originally built, the C&s 3’ gauge used a 19" on center tie
apacing. After the downgrade of the 3’ gauge lines by the C&S to
branch lines, this was increased to 24" centers. (This information
according to ICC Valuation data).

Hope that helps
Harold

10

Thanks a lot again guys, you have been a great help. [ hides Thomas engine and thinks hmmm protoype eh? ] lol
[:)]

11

Got home and checked my NMRA Data Book.

From the NMRA Data Book 1, section 9m, on “the last two common carrier narrow gauge railroads in North America” (Oct 1962) tie sizes and centers are:

WP&Y 6"x8", 6 1/2’ long on 21" centers
D&RGW 6"x8", 6’ long on 21 1/4" to 22 1/2" centers

Enjoy
Paul

12

Generally, when people say narrow gauge, they mean the old style narrow gauge, which more closely matches the measurements Harold and I are talking about. In effect, you could probably fib a little one way or the other on narrow gauge stuff, which is why I like it so much. There’s really not a right and wrong.

13

As I only answered for tie size I didn’t think about spacing or rail.
You are probably aware that RR used different rail sizes/weights according to the weight of locos (and how many wheels they had) and weight of traffic to be carried. This also affected the tie spacing. The heavier the locos/traffic the heavier the rail would need to be to reduce maintenance. Similarly heavier use meant more ties to do the job and preserve the gauge/reduce derailments.

I love that log tie pic[^]

14

GeorgiaShay yeah I thought as much having read a lot of books on the subject, especially the Maine two footers [which I ordered from the library and will be reading again [:D] ].

David Foster yeah being in BC Canada and so close to Vancouver Island where the loggers [NOT RR men] put down the track, just about anything was possible there. That’s where shays became popular was the island because at first most of the track was appalling. The Pacific Coast Shay and Williemette became famous there. The Pacific shay gots its name because it was so popular there.

Thanks a ton guys you have been very helpful. I think I like this forum lol. Thanks again for the info guys.

15

I agree there were several sizes used. That’s true for standard gauge as well. From Hilton’s book “American Narrow Gauge Railroads” p225 and 226 , as early as 1878 there were recommendation

16

Thanks again guys.