Track Cleaning? Nickel Silver Oxidation?

Model Railroader General Discussion (Model Railroader)
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Last nite was one of the coolest nights we have had here in Phoenix in quite awhile. Well, we had a big thunderstorm come through and it cooled everything off quite nicely… so out to the garage I went, and was out there for a few hours. First time in months…

Well, I went to runs ome train and had all kinds of issues. Keep stopping dead, lights flickering, just yuck! Track look clean, even wiped most of it to get of dust, but still had problems… I noticed that when I ran my finger over the rail, some parts felt smooth, others felt, sticky, or rough? I found some 3000 grit sand paper and gave the sections a quick rubbing, smooth, and perfect operation.

It has been a normal hot summer for us and the gagrage has been in 90’s for most of it. (Daytime 90-100) but, it has been incredibly humid this year. And a good portion of this rail has now survived it 3rd summer. So, to getting back to my issue… Can nickel silver oxidize? If not, what was it that I was feeling? And no, it wasnt paint, glue, or pigeaon poo [:)]

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canazar, I’m on the other side of the valley from you and it was still thundering here a few minutes ago.

I have to address things in the past tense these days; my layout room has been appropriated for my train room and my layout is without a home. Since I don’t really have any place to repostition it I am going to have to dispose of it and design - and build - something portable.

Nickle Silver does indeed oxidize but the oxidation is supposed to be conductive. I keep a bright boy around and I’ve worn my share of them out over the years but I solve my oxidation problem by lashing up three or four diesels and running them at high (read: unprototypical) speed around the layout for about twenty to thirty minutes. Because I use multiple units they don’t stall and the sparking - the technical term is “back EMF arcing” - burns the oxidation from both the track and wheels.

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Yes, NiS oxice “is” conductive, but not as good as a clean track. Think of the nickle silver oxide as a small value resistor. It will still conduct electricity, but as good as no resistance at all. Humidity is the problem. It causes all sorts of problems, not just with tracks, it can cause build up on the wheels, the power pickup points, wheels/axels, etc. But start with the track and clean the rails well.

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This is just a SWAG, but as you increase temps, volatiles of all kinds will be found in a given space. It could be from sap in wood, glues in laminates and particle boards, from what lino gives off all the time, and so on. If circulation is generally not so great in this space, then the volatiles will adhere to surfaces eventually. This is why we have to clean interior window surfaces, and why we must paint every few years. The same thing is happening to your layout, and that means to your rails. I’m guessing that is what you are seeing; condensates of some kind(s), and I would bet that the layout, itself, contributes much of it.

Again, big guy, it is just a silly wild XXXed guess.

-Crandell

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Since one can wipe the black “stuff” off the nickel silver rails with laquer thinner or acetone and again have smoothe running trains, and since the metal oxide is not soluable in laquer thinner or acetone, we may deduce the problem is not oxidation, but gunk. Whatever, as long as you clean with a non-abrasive method (and 3000 grit paper is just about non-abrasive) you should not scratch the rails leaving crevices for gunk to get a new foothold.

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Sorry, but there is NO sliver in ‘Nickel Silver’ - It’s a copper/ nickel alloy - therefor has no conductivity in any oxide it might produce.

It can, and does, hold contaimants such as dirt, carbons, and oils which attract dust. Two (wet + dry) track cleaning cars around your track should do a better job than trying to ‘burn’ it off since ‘burning’ is not as good an answer as ‘removing’.

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good evening canazar

try using mothers mag & aluminum polish.put some polish on a piece of cloth and rub over the rails you will see just how dirty your rails really are,even brand new track is dirty.follow the directions on the container,if done right and conditions are right you may not have to clean again for another year or so.also you might want to take a piece of cork road bed and glue to a block of wood and put the polish on the cork and rub it on.any polish that might get on the side of the rails can be removed with an old tooth brush after the polish dries.

dutchman

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At the Cochise & Western Model Railroad Club’s HO scale layout in Sierra Vista we had the same problem until we discovered Nevr-Dull Magic Wadding Polish. Any good metal or mag wheel polish is better than sandpaper or any other abrasive cleaner. This is how we clean all of the track that we can reach to do by hand.

Our second best method is Tony’s CMX Clean Machine filled with lacquer thinner followed by a Centerline roller running dry to mop up any residue, especially in hidden areas that we cannot reach to clean by hand.

With this combination, we clean track only about every six months instead of weekly, and we are in an unheated building that uses evaporative coolers in the summertime.

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You are actually talking about 2 different things! 1- the oxide of nickel silver is a conductor and not much of a problem. 2- The real curse, especially if your rolling stock has plastic wheels, is a combination of lubricant, dust, condensation, and gunk which is way more pronounced with plastic wheels. I admit to never having used a “rail cleaner car” although I guess some folks swear by them. I use all metal wheels, and about once a season I go over the rails with a rag dipped in 70% rubbing alcohol from the local discount store. On my modules, if setting up at a meet I will hit them lightly on the tops and guage corner (where the flanges ride) with a brite boy. I have not had any conductivity problems with DCC as the higher voltage AC seems to kick through the gunk. Enjoy! jc5729

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Thanks for all the tips guys. Definalty, needed.

Well, here is some more info for everyone to go over, as this thread is turning into a good one.

98% of my rolling stock has metal wheels so I know that is not the problem. (might be one or two odd balls that have slipped through the upgrade program). In my old gagrage, which was sealed up much better and stayed much cooler than this one, I never had a problem and back then, mnost of m,y rolling stock was plastic wheels!. In fact, there were sections of rail that I never cleaned. Back then, I used to read all the threads about track cleaning and wondered what all the fuss was about. Well, I now know about the “fuss” is. Lordy do I. [banghead]

The dust issue here is much worse I think once the dust gets on the rails, the arc of the current has more space, and speeds up the carbon build up. When I was sanding it with the paper, and yes it is 3000 grit which is pretty darn close to polish, it was doing a nice job of really cleaning the rails and smoothing them out. I think I will be doing a real hard look a the polish trick as the condtions in my gagrage are definalty taking a toll. I need to do something drastic. I am also haveing some troubles with my engines in which I think I have lost quite abit of the oil and lube. I am pretty sure sitting in 95 degree heat for 3 months as effected them as well. I am thinking those buggers have just evaporated dry.

Sorry for the wander, back to the rails… The reason I was wondering about the “coating” or oxidation, was the last week I had gone trhough and wiped everyting down with 70% alcohol and had it pretty clean. Yet a week later, stalls, sputters and kaputs! [censored]

Hmm. Be checkign in on this polish idea for sure. I have followed a bunch of

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Hello, Canazar! I am Semafore, the originator of the ‘gleam’ process.

I, too, had the never-ending experience of track-ickies. I, too, was always frustrated by erratically running trains. Seemed every week or so I was brite-boying the trackage for several hours, just to operate for 1 or 2 hours.Abrasive, liquid, polish never seemed to add much more run time, either.

30 years of these maladies I endured. Then, a few months ago, I was reconditioning a guitar’s frets. I wanted to make them really smooth and slick so string-bending required less effort. I noticed a small pair of crome-plated scissors, used the finger holds as a burnisher, and was amazed at how the finish looked like a mirror! I also realized that the frets were made of the same nickel material as …the rails!!

So, then I tried this on a section of IMHO rail… [:O][:D]! Then I reasoned that the rail head was flat, but the wheels have a bevel. Thus, the wheel rides only on the inside edge of the rail. Furthermore, the black stuff is primarily carbon flux residue from the current-consuming locos, trying for rail contact through the oxidants, leaving this arcing by-product on the rails and wheels. A closer look revealed what a rough surface the rails really are.

By using 400, then 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper pieces on a small wooden block, I contoured a more proto-typical shape on all the rail stock. Then I wiped off the grit residue, and vacuumed the fine debris. Finally, I used a 1/2-inch Stainless-Steel flat washer, I burnished the rails, following the contour, to a gleaming state, like a mirror. A final dry wiping, and I was done. This is done only once, so don’t fear having to do this repeatedly.

I did an N-scale layout ( November 2005), an HOn3 layout (feb 2006), and doing the mega HO layout, currently under construction, yet fully operating as we go. sfrm.org[/] I do all trackage. It may time-consuming, but well worth the effort. It is don

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I have th track cleaning down to FUN for our operators. 750 ft of N/S .

  1. Atlas RS1 (power of choice)

  2. Walthers cleaning box car

  3. Minatroincis Clean II (fersh battery every 3 sessions)

Engine PUSHES the Clean II and PULLS the Walthers. on the main lines. In the yards we drop the Clean II and push the Walthers around. Guys enjoy running the cleaning train.

To prove to the rivet heads in the group we did not clean an interchange track for a month. Did not even run on it. Put the biggest critic of clean track a BLI Hudson that will stop if there is a speck on the track and it could not move in that section without the 0-5-0. Ran the clean train around that branch 3 times and everything was perfect. It took me well over 2 mo. to get that Clean II to work but it was worth all the effort.

When we are finished I wipe all the wheels with 90% IPA and all is done.

Other like the gleam deal but with this musch track and phase II in the planing stages I wanted a fun way to do it. I use that as a traing tool for poeple to learn their way around this layout.

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Semaphore. I have been thinking about you… [:)]

I got onto the idea about polishing the rails and dug into my bag of tricks at work. I have been sanding my rails with a little 600, then a good rubbing with 1200, then a smooth out with a piece of 3000 grit paper. Man, what difference. I can acutally hear and see my engines pick up speed when they hit the polished section. Pretty incredible.

My 3000 is just about done and I am off to the store to get some 2000 which, I think should be fine. I have double track mainline and I have been doing the sanding treatment to only line to see how it does… You can tell just by eyeballing it. I only started 2 weeks ago and have run some trains and trying to kep an eye on dirt build up. So far, been pretty nill. Eventually I will do it all, but I want to test to see how long it last. Nice thing is it only takes about 5 minutes per 3 foot section of track, it goes pretty quick. I am going to look into the burnishing of the rail with the stainless steel.