OK, I thought I’d start a new thread since my RECOMMENDATIONS post has gotton so large.
Here is the question: How do you ensure even voltage throughout the main line system when distances from the transformer range from a few feet to over 35 feet? Is more than one power clip to the tracks required?
Also, explaine how switches are insulated so that the spur running off the switch is controled by a seperate power source. What happens when a train on the spur line crosses the switch and enters the main line?
The easiest way is to make sure you’ve got really good continuity betwen each rail joint. Simply relying on the press-fit rail joiners isn’t going to cut it. You need a good mechanical connection. There are variouls methods for doing this. You can solder the rail joints themselves (permanent), solder jumper wires around the rail joints (semi-permanent), or use some kind of rail clamp or screw through the rail joints (easily reversable). Many folks suggest running jumper wires, but the cross-section of the rail is far larger than the cross-section of the feeder wires, so your voltage drop as you go along the length of rail will be less than that of the feeder.
I recommend getting one of the myriad books on wiring your model railroad. Wiring is something that doesn’t lend itself to forums, as drawings are absolutely necessary for proper interpretation. Fortunately, the wiring techinques that work for HO and N scale work just as well for large scale; it’s just that you’ll need a beefier power supply in the garden.
I run a G scale outdoor Christmas display which is up for about six weeks, so my remarks are based on that. I ensure good connectivity by using the LGB dielectric grease on all track joints. I also run feeders to four points on the layout. When assembling the track I look for weak/bent track clips and replace them. When the track is laid and electric connected, I run a shakedown with just a #2. I look for a flickering headlight and momentary stalls. When I see one I look for the cause and eliminate it. Doing this helps to have smooth running the whole season. Happy Rail Roading! Bob
Yes well i can only endorse what has been said about continuity and voltage levels. I have about 200 m or 660’ of track and you can go anywhere on the layout and the difference in voltage is not discernable; as brass track is an excellent conductor of electricity.
i run DCC and having maximum voltage on all parts of the track at all times brings good conductivity into an even more prominent position…
As far as using the points (switches) to conduct electricity to certain blocks of the track; this is a well used and popular idea, which just switches one leg of the circuit to the required block section depending on which way the point is operated.
I personally do not support this idea; for my preferred method of use, as it ruins the points internal conductivity.
Thanks mate. Not sure what you said but will file it away in the memory bank. I think I’m going to just lay low for a while because I can’t do anything until the Spring anyway. My head is getting so full of tips, advice, how-to’s and how-not’s I can’t keep up with it.
So, when I can get back outside and begin work you’ll be hearing more from me for sure. Thanks to everyone for all the help. I’ve kept a “printed” copy of every reply to my questions so it wasn’t in vain you may be sure…
I wired my railroad with 14-Guage solid copper Romex cable, the heavy-duty stuff they use to wire houses. I have feeders every five feet. I solder all the connections and coat the with Aristo-Craft electrically conductive grease to prevent oxidation and then put a wire nut over the joint. This method requires a lot of long, boring and tedious work but the result is wother it. Your best bet is to have some friends over, throw some beer in the frideg and make an assembly line out of it.
Conductivity is measured in Mhos which is only ohms spelt backwards and it is the opposite of resistance.
You can do what you like but you will never under normal circumstances beat normal brass track for conductivity.
The problem is and always has been the joins in the track. I use 3.69m (12") track sections which means not many joins and what joins i do have except at points (switches) i use LGB joiners which are then properly soldered when they are new.
For points i use Hillman clamps, not he split jaw type they are toohard to get on. This is what is covered in the text book on the matter.
I regularly go over my track with a voltage meter and i cannot detect any worthwhile voltage drop across any of my joins unless in the rare event of a problem joint.
I should have mentioned that my wiring system consists of a circle wired as a paralel circuit(SP) with cenecctions to the power supply at opposites sides. Ultimatly I intend to solder the wire to the tracks directly. Should I use a torch or a resistance soldering gun for the opperation?
My LHS has 1’ sections of Aristocraft track for $2-3. You might want to see if yours does the same. You can then try soldering feeders on to that section of track and see what works well for you. Remember, metal conducts heat well so if you try to solder in place you might just have a big heat sink.
Conversely (a related question so I won’t start a new thread), would using heatsinks like vice grips also serve to concentrate the heat in a specific area?
The idea that you need multiple feeds to your railway is quite wrong; why would you? if barss rail is oneof the best electrical conductors you can get?
As stated previously i have about 200m or 660’ track and i only have one connection and you can measure the voltage between the rails all over the set up and you always get the same about 22.7 V AC.
If this is so what would you gain from running wires to the rails.
If anyone disagrees with this i would like to hear some actual voltage drop figures ie put some facts too your opinion!
I agree with Ian . I have brass track with only one feeder and there is no noticable drop in voltage . I don’t think it would hurt to use more feeders but why go through the extra expense and work ? Hook up one feeder and then measure the voltage along the route and see if you need to do more . I would recomend a mechanical fastener at eack rail joint . I use railclamps myself and they have held up real good .
Ian;
I’m beginning to suspect that this posting is a SPAM!!!
“14-Guage solid copper Romex cable”, “feeders every five feet” That is a lot of wasted time and money that could have better been spent on more rolling stock.
I use the wire that comes in the “malibu light” sets for my power. (Ian, Malibu Lights = 12 volt lights set along the sidewalk, Its a California/Yankee thing) Yes there are connections at every turnout, siding, passing track, but that is because those are all isolated and can be switched to different power supply. Main line power is applied twice, once at Rosebud Falls (5 foot (Ian: ~1.7m) from the control station) and again at Green Apple Orchard. GAO is 60 feet (Ian: ~18 m) from control station by walking across the lawn, however the engine must travel 532 feet of brass track (Ian: ~132m) to get from RbF to GAO. I did that mostly because I did not completely trust my skills at connecting the track. I use LGB “flex” rails, looked into getting the longer stuff but was not willing to pay that kind of freight charges. When laying track I take two lengths of track to the wire wheel and buff them up, use the LGB slip on rail joiner between the pair and solder them, these double sections are then connected with Split Jaw Rail Clamps. I have never experienced any electrical drop problems.
Prior to rewiring with the 14-guage wire I had terible voltage drop from one end of the layout to the other depite having brass rails. I was merly copying the wiring paln from my O-Gauge club layout. I felt it was better to buy the best wiring and over-design the electrical system and not have to replace it a third time (the first time I used speaker wire, BIG mistake).
“Prior to rewiring with the 14-guage wire I had terrible voltage drop from one end of the layout to the other despite having brass rails.”
How far, give it to me in feet or meters. I have 500 feet of track between power connections and have very little power loss.
What kind of track connections? Those brass slip on’s with a little grease so they can slide off quicker? Brass slip on with solder? Some type of screwed clamp? What?
How do you make the power connection to your rails? I solder an “eyelet” wiring connector on the wire and pull one of the screws out of a Split Jaw Rail Clamp, pass it through, after shinning everything up nice and clean, tighten it back up, add a little flux, and a touch of solder.
"I was merely copying the wiring plan from my O-Gauge club layout. I felt it was better to buy the best wiring and over-design the electrical system and not have to replace it a third time "
Yes, I agree, it is better to over design than to under design, but why build the QE2 when the pond is only a stones throw wide?
“(the first time I used speaker wire, BIG mistake).”
YEP! Got to agree with you on that one, figured that one my self about 40 years ago. Speaker wire is for some one else’s speakers. Not mine!
ttrigg: Would you explaine how the switches are insulated, so that the spur line running off the switch is controled by a seperate power source. What happens when a train on the spur line crosses the switch and enters the main line?
If you understand what I mean? Here it is another way:
Main line loop has two switches in it to allow trains to leave the line and enter a smaller secondary line with its own loop. This inter loop has a spur running off of it that is a dead end line going nowhere. It is used to pull trains off the loop and park.
The spur is not connected to the main power supply. It operates on its own independent power source. The siding switch is insulated so that when power is applied to the main line the spur is not affected. The engine sitting on the siding remains idle.
Now, what happens when you apply power to the spur so the “parked” engine can be pulled into the main line? Will it transition smoothly accross the insulated switch and onto the main line with out stopping or reversing? How does that work?
SRS this is pretty easy to do, you can remove an internal strap in the switch, so that one leg of the siding track is isolated. you then get a separate power supply with one leg in common with your main power supplly you then connect the other leg up to your siding and you have created what many refer to as an island voltage and this throttle for that section can be preste to any speed yoy like. When you throw the switch in retain direction it will remove power from thwat section you have controlled separately.
As stated previously i am not in favout of this as it damages your switches. If you go to DCC this is not rquired.
Thanks Iandor; now explaine, in the King’s English, just what is DCC? How is it different from just DC? And, finally how do you operate your switches in DCC, or DC for that matter?
The main line is about 200’ roughly, but I only used the stock rail joiners. The track is Aristo-Craft and USA Trains and srews together. Hindsight is always 20/20 and maybe I should have used rail-clamps but I was a junior in high school when I built the line and made some dumb decisions.