I’ve gotten the impression over time that there’s another word that needs to be added to that: “enough.” Something may be profitable, but if it’s not profitable enough, it’s not going to fly.
But PSR is the polar opposite of every idea you promote on here.
Smaller trains, smaller engines, smaller yards, switching, smaller customers? It’s the antiPSR.
Glad you like PSR since it promotes everything you dislike.
Yes switching predates PSR - however, very little of it has survived PSR.
I wonder why greyhounds left railroading? I remember him saying in another thread that he worked quite a few years at Allstate. Maybe the railroad called the Humane Society on him because he kept beating a dead horse…
AFAIK, the Iowa Interstate has not implemented PSR.
PSR seems to work quite well on the class 1 railroads. I don’t see larger trains as necessarily being part of PSR. I see them as a concurrent development to PSR.
There are phases to adoption of new technologies.
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The technology must be created
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People must figure out how to use it to the best advantage
What’s relatively new is the widespread use of DPU and AC traction. Both these facilitate the operation of larger trains. Companies are managed by cost and revenue numbers. The numbers being generated are telling the class 1 railroads that they’re more efficient if they run longer trains. It just took a while, which is normal, for them to get to the point where they were comfortable putting two 110 car coal trains together into a 220-car train with six locomotives spaced throughout the train.
This increased efficiency is good for the overall economy and benefits the general population. But, if a person loses their desired employment due to the efficiency gain, they’re not going to like it. Got that.
Back to the Iowa Interstate.
Ah yes, just merely coincidental that RRs are operating larger trains as they implement the PSR operating plans.
What convenience.
Have you seen the dealer markups over the past 2 years? In this day and age - I’m wondering how much longer the dealer system will last. I don’t think many will miss it.
Longer trains generally equates to fewer crews, which is definitely a tenet of PSR…
The primary tenant of PSR is FEWER - Fewer trains, Fewer people, Fewer crew starts, Fewer managers, Fewer behind the scenes personnel (trackmen, signalmen, carmen, locomotive maintenance men, ‘back office’ clerks etc.) Chop the head count any way possible.
The name “Precision Scheduled Railroading” sounds nice but it’s nothing more than lipstick on a pig. The real purpose is to make the stock price go up and funnel money to the shareholders and executives, with no regard for the long-term future of the business.
As Balt said, what actually happens in reality is cut, cut, cut.
Cut maintenance on everything, track, cars and locomotives.
Cut track capacity, both in yards and out on the road.
Cut train starts and therefore crews, this also results in an expanded version of the good old ‘hold for tonnage’ style of operation, which a truly scheduled railroad would try to avoid.
Cut local crews and service, and move the remaining ones around so it best suits your railroad operation, not what the customers want.
Do not ask the customers what they want or what type of service will work for them. TELL them what they are going to get, and they can take it or leave it. Also hike their freight rates while you’re at it.
And since you will now have fewer trains and fewer customers you will also need fewer locomotives, so get rid of so many that you now have no recovery capability when one of the remaining poorly maintained units fails, screwing up the railroad and delaying the remaining freight even more.
The operating ratio is your God, and every operation must meet the pre-planned numbers. Short trains are bad, extra trains are bad (even if they are tonnaged out), and anything outside the plan is bad, even if it’s an extra switch that the customer is willing to pay good money for (if you even have a locomotive and a crew to do it).
How is any new or unconventional idea supposed to gain traction in this business environment?
P.S: Low or mid-level railroad managers are just ‘yes men’ these days, though I suspect this is a problem a
here is what PSR is on the U.P.
https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr091019-precision-scheduled-railroading.htm
How Does Freight Rail Service Work with PSR?
Where railroads previously focused on moving trains, PSR shifts that focus to moving cars. So, instead of waiting for a long train to be built, trains are always moving and cars are picked up on schedule, regardless of train length. Velocity and train length are still important to railroads, but now, the focus on moving cars takes precedence.
What railroads found is that the focus on moving trains was actually slowing down the network overall and causing cars to sit for long periods of time in yards (a measurement railroaders call “dwell”) — and that
[quote user=“Euclid”]
here is what PSR is on the U.P.
https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr091019-precision-scheduled-railroading.htm
How Does Freight Rail Service Work with PSR?
Where railroads previously focused on moving trains, PSR shifts that focus to moving cars. So, instead of waiting for a long train to be built, trains are always moving and cars are picked up on schedule, regardless of train length. Velocity and train length are still important to railroads, but now, the focus on moving cars takes precedence.
What railroads found is that the focus on moving trains was actually slowing down the network overall and causing cars to sit for long periods of time in yards (a measurement railroaders
PSR, a.k.a. Pickup-Setout-Recrew.
Many manifest trains regularly die on HOS because of waiting their turn to work at a yard. Yards get plugged, meaning cars destined for them have to go somewhere else to hold until they can be taken. (Tonight there are two Chicago - Council Bluffs manifests from previous days tied down on line, with another train on the way. And I don’t expect CB to take that one, either.) When I get a manifest that works at certain yards, I expect tp either not make it in, or make it in just in time to tie the train down where yard crews can reach it and then expire on HOS.
I’ve read that even North Platte is at times having troubles processing trains.
Our latest plan cut out all the yard to yard (Talking about yards 50 or more miles apart, not those within a metro area.) transfer trains. Let the through trains do that work. In a couple of weeks everything has fallen apart. Today I heard those jobs are coming back. I almost think the latest plan was adopted by those who knew it would lead to chaos, just to prove there’s nothing more to cut.
Jeff
[quote user=“Euclid”]
here is what PSR is on the U.P.
https://www.up.com/customers/track-record/tr091019-precision-scheduled-railroading.htm
How Does Freight Rail Service Work with PSR?
Where railroads previously focused on moving trains, PSR shifts that focus to moving cars. So, instead of waiting for a long train to be built, trains are always moving and cars are picked up on schedule, regardless of train length. Velocity and train length are still important to railroads, but now, the focus on moving cars takes precedence.
What railroads found is that the focus on moving trains was actually slowing down the network overall and causing cars to sit for long periods of time in yards (a measurement railroaders ca
PSR overlooks the fact that a near capacity railroad is a juggling act.
The juggler on stage has more objects in the air than he has two hands to manipulate the objects with. Each object can only occupy the jugglers hands for a fraction of a second before being released to make way for the next object.
Rail facilities don’t have the capacity to ‘hold’ all the traffic on the railroad any more than the jugglers two hands do. Keeping traffic moving - keeps a rail facility current; dispatched trains free up tracks that arriving trains need to yard their trains. Where you have situations such as Jeff described, you have a inept juggler that isn’t keeping all objects in the air and dispatching traffic in time to make room for the arriving traffic.
PSR is going to a juggler that is juggling 5 bowling pins, and throwing a Chevy Silverado at them.
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And then blaming the juggler for not trying hard enough.
The Industry advocates defining PSR would say that PSR improves juggling.
Industry advocates would be lying with every breath they take.
I mean, they’re industry advocates. That’s their job.
Unless they’re not being paid. Then they’re just part of the fandom. The worst part.
Edit to add: check out the newswire. Grain shippers don’t think PSR is such a hot thing. But BNSF says their draconian attendance policy is helping. Isn’t that special?
OK, we’ve seen a whole lot here. Such as:
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I’m beating a dead horse. The railroads should just leave the money and business to the truckers. Nothing to do here. Move along.
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The BNSF would have to send a switch crew/engine out to the Tyson facility. There’s no other way to do it. Quit thinking. This extremely limited mentality is a part of the problem.
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It would be problematic for a train to run the 180 miles on a low-density rail line in one shift. This is pure BS, but the operating jerks will throw anything against the wall and hope it sticks. They don’t want to be bothered.
So, I’m going to take it to another level. And I’ll propose using a Brandt power unit with a 5th wheel to do it.
It’s typical for facilities, such as Tyson, to have yard tractors and employees to move trailers/containers around. They bring empty trailers/containers to loading docks as needed and remove the loads as needed. The loaded trailers/containers are moved to parking spo
We get it, you hate employees and unions.
If you can get a robot truck to connect and disconnect air lines (both on the trailers and railcars), take itself on and off the track (human operated hi-rails have enough trouble with this), do air tests, line switches, get the railroad’s managment to support you AND get the nasty FRA to approve this type of operation then have at it.
As for timekeeping, it’s not the distance or theoretical run time that eats up hours, it’s congestion from having to work around other trains, especially in yards. That’s why it often takes us 7 to 10 hours to make a 100 mile run on 50 or 60 mph mainline track. Most of the extra hours are eaten up waiting in yards or sidings.
If you can convince IAIS and whatever other railroads you deal with in Chicago to give you a clear path each and every day you can do this. We have a couple branchline runs on 25 mph track that cover 180 to 200 miles in one shift, but they are normally the only train on the line and if anything happens (meets, heat/cold slow orders*) the crew runs out of time and either gets rescued or put to bed online, to come back and finish the trip 8 to 12 hours later.
*A lot of our branchlines are restricted to 15 mph or less when it gets too hot or too cold. Those restrictions are created by the Engineering department, Transportation would be quite happy to see them go away.
BTW - if you left ICG while it was still called Illinois Central Gulf then you left at least a year before Hunter Harrison came there, which means you have zero personal experience with what PSR actually does.